Could it be velvet?

[4ktvs]

I have a juv emperor angel fish that turned very pale two days ago. Like it's covered in snow or parts of it body have been bleached. I at first thought it was just spooked, but noticed it's color doesn't return even when relaxed.

I think this happened because of the purple tang I added 2-3 weeks ago. However he looks quite healthy still.

If I treat the display tank with copper how much would I need to account for the rock and sand absorbing it?

Reason I ask is that this tank is fish only and I am concerned the stress of moving it might kill the angel considering it's not doing well today.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What you describe may be. Pics under white lighting would be extremely helpful
Some symptoms are hanging at top of tank, rapid breathing, loss of appetite, swimming into current of power heads
You will need to set up a quarantine tank and treatment will be copper power or copper safefor a full 30 days at 80 degrees monitored with a reliable copper test kit and no api brand either
Hanna is good
Add aeration also during treatment and display tank it was in will have to be fishless 45, preferably 60 days to assure parasite have gone through their life cycle
Please provide pics for confirmation
Whatever treatment you get, make sure it says TREATS OODINUM
Tank transfer method and hyposalinity is another option but with fish stressed, I’d go copper

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a juv emperor angel fish that turned very pale two days ago. Like it's covered in snow or parts of it body have been bleached. I at first thought it was just spooked, but noticed it's color doesn't return even when relaxed.

I think this happened because of the purple tang I added 2-3 weeks ago. However he looks quite healthy still.

If I treat the display tank with copper how much would I need to account for the rock and sand absorbing it?

Reason I ask is that this tank is fish only and I am concerned the stress of moving it might kill the angel considering it's not doing well today.

Add aeration to bring down stress and assure ammonia and nitrates in acceptable range

 

[threebuoys]

If you choose to treat in your DT, you will need to test copper daily at a minimum. It is impossible to predict how much will be absorbed by the rock and gravel
After treatment it will be impossible to predict how long the copper will leach back into the water
You will not be able to add coral or invertebrates as long as copper is present .

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Emperor angels are really prone to Neobenedenia flukes, and that can cause them to turn pale.

As mentioned, photos under white light and a short video would help.....

Jay

 

[4ktvs]

What you describe may be. Pics under white lighting would be extremely helpful
Some symptoms are hanging at top of tank, rapid breathing, loss of appetite, swimming into current of power heads
You will need to set up a quarantine tank and treatment will be copper power or copper safefor a full 30 days at 80 degrees monitored with a reliable copper test kit and no api brand either
Hanna is good
Add aeration also during treatment and display tank it was in will have to be fishless 45, preferably 60 days to assure parasite have gone through their life cycle
Please provide pics for confirmation
Whatever treatment you get, make sure it says TREATS OODINUM
Tank transfer method and hyposalinity is another option but with fish stressed, I’d go copper

The fish eats like a pig. It just keeps having spasms. No sign of rubbing against sand or other surfaces. The fish actually spends more time near rocks and down low than before. It shows no interest in swimming into the powerhead or being near high flow. I so dosed the DT with przi pro tonight since I think it's flukes.

I'll try taking a video of the fish feeding since that is the most likely time for him to come out of the rocks now.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The fish eats like a pig. It just keeps having spasms. No sign of rubbing against sand or other surfaces. The fish actually spends more time near rocks and down low than before. It shows no interest in swimming into the powerhead or being near high flow. I so dosed the DT with przi pro tonight since I think it's flukes.

I'll try taking a video of the fish feeding since that is the most likely time for him to come out of the rocks now.

Pics under white light good.
Tremor/shaking/yawning effect can be flukes

 

[4ktvs]

Pics under white light good.
Tremor/shaking/yawning effect can be flukes

I am sure it's velvet as the purple tang became pale on the upper half, kept swimming on the upper part of the tank and into the powerhead flow. Also I could see tiny white spots on angelfish with a picture taken.

The Emperor angel was in very bad shape this morning. Was able to scoop him up by hand. Gave him a 4-5 min fresh water dip in a heated bucket. Did this also for the purple tang that freaked out the first min and then did okay until the 5 min was up. This process was much more harsh on the angel.

Both fish are now in a QT tank with a full dose of copper power. So now that DT is fishless.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I am sure it's velvet as the purple tang became pale on the upper half, kept swimming on the upper part of the tank and into the powerhead flow. Also I could see tiny white spots on angelfish with a picture taken.

The Emperor angel was in very bad shape this morning. Was able to scoop him up by hand. Gave him a 4-5 min fresh water dip in a heated bucket. Did this also for the purple tang that freaked out the first min and then did okay until the 5 min was up. This process was much more harsh on the angel.

Both fish are now in a QT tank with a full dose of copper power. So now that DT is fishless.

While a picture and video aren't always a "sure thing" when it comes to diagnosing fish diseases, they are much better than verbal descriptions. From a video, I can calculate the respiration rate, and that would indicate velvet or not.

Your three main differential diagnoses here are: velvet, advanced Cryptocaryon or flukes.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I am sure it's velvet as the purple tang became pale on the upper half, kept swimming on the upper part of the tank and into the powerhead flow. Also I could see tiny white spots on angelfish with a picture taken.

The Emperor angel was in very bad shape this morning. Was able to scoop him up by hand. Gave him a 4-5 min fresh water dip in a heated bucket. Did this also for the purple tang that freaked out the first min and then did okay until the 5 min was up. This process was much more harsh on the angel.

Both fish are now in a QT tank with a full dose of copper power. So now that DT is fishless.

Other behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target Oodinium

 

[4ktvs]

While a picture and video aren't always a "sure thing" when it comes to diagnosing fish diseases, they are much better than verbal descriptions. From a video, I can calculate the respiration rate, and that would indicate velvet or not.

Your three main differential diagnoses here are: velvet, advanced Cryptocaryon or flukes.

Jay

Fairly sure it's velvet, but here is short video of the angelfish this morning.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Fairly sure it's velvet, but here is short video of the angelfish this morning.

Yes - that does look like it could be velvet. Keep the copper at 2.5 ppm

Jay

 

[4ktvs]

Yes - that does look like it could be velvet. Keep the copper at 2.5 ppm

Jay

Both fish are in worse shape than when I started. The angelfish actually lays on the bottom of inside the PVC and then goes to swim into the current. Would doing another freshwater dip help at this point?

If this is flukes is it safe to dose Prazipro while the copper is still active at therapeutic levels?

If the display tank the fish came from does have velvet would draining it and allowing it to dry be enough for a reboot instead of waiting 6 weeks. Asking because I would like to move the fish out of QT sooner rather than later since the QT tank size is not ideal for both fish to be in.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Both fish are in worse shape than when I started. The angelfish actually lays on the bottom of inside the PVC and then goes to swim into the current. Would doing another freshwater dip help at this point?

If this is flukes is it safe to dose Prazipro while the copper is still active at therapeutic levels?

If the display tank the fish came from does have velvet would draining it and allowing it to dry be enough for a reboot instead of waiting 6 weeks. Asking because I would like to move the fish out of QT sooner rather than later since the QT tank size is not ideal for both fish to be in.

Yes - try a FW dip, five minutes in tap water. I will warn you - at this point, the FW dip may kill the fish. However, if it does, that means the fish was destined to die soon anyway.

If you see tiny gray "scales" in the bottom of the dip tank, that is Neobenedenia. You would then follow up with prazi.

Here is a trick though - if you knock off all the flukes at once, the fish may bleed out. Watch it during the dip, if you start to see flukes dropping off, or sort of half hanging on the fish, stop the dip and put it back into the tank. The idea is that *maybe* you can dislodge half the flukes, and keep the fish from bleeding out. Then, you can dip again in a day or two.

If you don't see flukes in the dip water, then you are indeed up against velvet. The FW dip will help buy you some time with that as well.

Jay