Could this be ich or velvet?

sandfan85 · May 10, 2019

@Humblefish, @HotRocks

Guys I could really use some help here. I had a PBT tang infest my DT due to a poor QT process. I’ve since removed all my fish from DT into several QT tanks. They’ve been in therapeutic levels of Copper Power since 4/20 (see pics below). What I don’t understand is how I’m seeing this on my Purple and Hippo tangs. I did do a FW dip a couple days ago to alleviate the possibility of flukes. I’m at a loss here. I’m currently in the process of bathing my hippo tang in a Ruby Reef Rally solution of 10ml’s in 2 gallons. I plan to due the same for the purple. Thanks in advance for your help.

drstardust · May 10, 2019

The rally bath is a good idea no matter what this is. By appearance this could be a bad case of ich, but can't rule out velvet. In either case, this would not make much sense given how long the spots have been on the fish (or have they come and gone?) Flukes are less likely if you had a negative FW dip. You mention several tanks...are they all very regularly tested with the Hanna checker? Are all of the fish displaying symptoms in the same pattern? Are the fish doing ok in terms of behavior and feeding?

ngoodermuth · May 10, 2019

I’ve seen something similar recently, and it ended up turning into a pretty severe bacterial infection.

Before we go down that road though, just to verify... there’s some pretty big gaps between the readings listed, even though it doesn’t look like it has dropped much. Were you testing at all in between these dates?

Did you do water changes since reaching therapeutic? Are you dosing the new water BEFORE it hits the tank?

drstardust · May 10, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
Are you dosing the new water BEFORE it hits the tank?

Critical point here, methinks.

4FordFamily · May 10, 2019

Those are awfully specific readings, are you using a Hanna checker?

sandfan85 · May 10, 2019

drstardust said:
The rally bath is a good idea no matter what this is. By appearance this could be a bad case of ich, but can't rule out velvet. In either case, this would not make much sense given how long the spots have been on the fish (or have they come and gone?) Flukes are less likely if you had a negative FW dip. You mention several tanks...are they all very regularly tested with the Hanna checker? Are all of the fish displaying symptoms in the same pattern? Are the fish doing ok in terms of behavior and feeding?

Because I have so many fish, I have them broken up into 3 tanks. None of the fish were showing any symptoms of velvet or ich at the time of QT. But, because one fish (PBT that passed) showed severe signs, its safe to assume they were all infected. One thing Ive learned, just because you can't see it, doesn't mean they don't have it. Which is why I QT everybody. None of the other 2 QT tanks are showing ANY signs of infection. Only the tank the houses a Purple and a Hippo. Also of note. Tangs are eating like pigs, and attitudes are much the same, aside from being ticked about being in a 10gal QT tank.

I check my copper levels regularly with a Hanna checker, and I "pre-dose" the water when I do a WC to insure therapeutic levels are maintained. Which is also why the fluctuation in Copper levels vary. I alway check the level before the WC, and that gives me an idea of what to add. Ive got it figured out. If I do a 2 gallon WC, I only need to add 2.2ml's to keep me at a 2.0 therapeutic level. Believe me, with 3 QT tanks, Ive done more WC's than I care to admit, lol.

sandfan85 · May 10, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
I’ve seen something similar recently, and it ended up turning into a pretty severe bacterial infection.

Before we go down that road though, just to verify... there’s some pretty big gaps between the readings listed, even though it doesn’t look like it has dropped much. Were you testing at all in between these dates?

Did you do water changes since reaching therapeutic? Are you dosing the new water BEFORE it hits the tank?

Hello and thanks for chiming in. I did go out of town, which is why there is a gap in the dates. However, nothing changed while i was gone, in terms of WC's. Im currently checking levels using a Hanna Checker, and I "pre-dose" the water before doing the change.

sandfan85 · May 10, 2019

4FordFamily said:
Those are awfully specific readings, are you using a Hanna checker?

yes, Hanna Copper HR

ngoodermuth · May 11, 2019

Do you have an API test kit laying around, to confirm the Hanna is functioning properly?

sandfan85 · May 11, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
Do you have an API test kit laying around, to confirm the Hanna is functioning properly?

I don't, but not a bad idea. I will visit my LFS and pick one up today.

sandfan85 · May 11, 2019

Update -

This morning, after the Ruby Reef Rally bath last night, the Purple appears to have far less spots than yesterday. Could this be a bacterial issue? This would make more sense based on how much time they've spent in copper. Just to reiterate, neither the Hippo or Purple showed any signs of ich or velvet until almost 2 weeks into their copper treatment.

Stumped!!!

ngoodermuth · May 11, 2019

sandfan85 said:
Update -

This morning, after the Ruby Reef Rally bath last night, the Purple appears to have far less spots than yesterday. Could this be a bacterial issue? This would make more sense based on how much time they've spent in copper. Just to reiterate, neither the Hippo or Purple showed any signs of ich or velvet until almost 2 weeks into their copper treatment.

Stumped!!!

If the rally helped, my money is on either a bacterial infection or brook.

Metroplex + Kanaplex and/or Furan-2 will take care of both possibilities and can be used with copper.

The metroplex should be dosed for at least 14 days against brook, and the other antibiotic(s) at least 10 days, but up to 14 if symptoms persist.

drstardust · May 11, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
If the rally helped, my money is on either a bacterial infection or brook.

Metroplex + Kanaplex and/or Furan-2 will take care of both possibilities and can be used with copper.

The metroplex should be dosed for at least 14 days against brook, and the other antibiotic(s) at least 10 days, but up to 14 if symptoms persist.

This is what I would say. These darn things can really look like anything.

4FordFamily · May 11, 2019

ngoodermuth said:
If the rally helped, my money is on either a bacterial infection or brook.

Metroplex + Kanaplex and/or Furan-2 will take care of both possibilities and can be used with copper.

The metroplex should be dosed for at least 14 days against brook, and the other antibiotic(s) at least 10 days, but up to 14 if symptoms persist.

I’m going to agree with this whole heartedly as well