Could this be velvet?

omykiss001 · Dec 21, 2015

melypr1985 said:
So you say the spots were large and not too numerous to count? Velvet can look like a dusting of small dots, coupled with the rapid breathing and other symptoms you mentioned. The copper is the way to treat both anyway, so you should be covered except for the CBB. Is the CBB tolerating the TTM well? Are his symptoms disappearing or getting worse? If it was velvet then I would think the CBB would be dead by now. Pictures would help clear it up of course.

CBB is still in TTM and alive as of this morning (further indication of crypto). Breathing rapidly, but I think same issue as the powder brown, stress made it worse he is due to be transferred again tomorrow. Might give him a FW dip as part of the transfer if he does not improve some by then.

Humblefish · Dec 21, 2015

How long has the CBB been going thru TTM?

omykiss001 · Dec 21, 2015

Humblefish said:
How long has the CBB been going thru TTM?

He went in Wed late. 2nd transfer or 3rd tank of TMM tomorrow morning.

On a sad note the powder brown is still not out of the woods. Came to find him upside down. Looked dead. Just a twitch in the gill is all I could see. Have spent the last 40 minutes bring it back to life. He is swimming again. Gonna do another freshwater dip as hoping it will buy a little more time. If I don't have a feeling he'll be gone in another hour or so. Even though should give him a day off I think it's my only option.

Didn't think the swaying him in the water would have brought him back. 10 more minutes and I'm sure he'd be dead.

omykiss001 · Dec 21, 2015

This is what he like after coming back from pretty much dead. I'll give it to the fish he's got a will to keep trucking.

Any other suggestions welcome.

melypr1985 · Dec 21, 2015

well good job bringing him back. I think your doing what you need to and probably more than most would.

Is the PBT in copper right now? I'm a little lost one what all is happening to which fish.

omykiss001 · Dec 21, 2015

melypr1985 said:
well good job bringing him back. I think your doing what you need to and probably more than most would. Is the PBT in copper right now? I'm a little lost one what all is happening to which fish.

Yes PBT is in copper. CBB is in TTM as he did not handle the copper well during original QT so did TTM with him.

omykiss001 · Dec 21, 2015

Just hoping the little guy will turn the corner soon.

omykiss001 · Dec 21, 2015

Finished 2nd FW dip. Fish did well then after returning to the QT. HE FREAKED OUT swam like crazy then just stopped lost all his color and stopped breathing again.

Another round of fish CPR got him swimming again. About 50 minutes worth. Holding his own again, but not at full strength. Hoping the damage to his gills isn't to severe, but the fact I've brought him back twice suggests they are capable of gas exchange still.

Hopefully this will push things to his favor. He actually handled the FW dip better than the 1st time wasn't until he went back to the salt. Could it be a major release of parasites causes a major hurt or super inch to the fish.

If this fish survives this my daughter say his name will be lucky powder [emoji1]

Video post 2nd round of fish rescue breathing.

Humblefish · Dec 21, 2015

omykiss001 said:
He went in Wed late. 2nd transfer or 3rd tank of TMM tomorrow morning.

Can't be velvet then. I've acquired several CBBs with velvet and none survive longer than 72 hrs without prompt chemical treatment.

With regards to your Powder Brown, he seems "better" after the FW dip. Ich should be gone from his gills after 7 days max, and the presence of copper should shield him reinfection so long as it is at therapeutic levels. However, in the back of my mind I'm wondering if being in copper is part of his problem.

omykiss001 · Dec 21, 2015

Humblefish said:
Can't be velvet then. I've acquired several CBBs with velvet and none survive longer than 72 hrs without prompt chemical treatment.

With regards to your Powder Brown, he seems "better" after the FW dip. Ich should be gone from his gills after 7 days max, and the presence of copper should shield him reinfection so long as it is at therapeutic levels. However, in the back of my mind I'm wondering if being in copper is part of his problem.

Could be. He didn't blink at the copper on original QT, but this of course is a whole different ball game fighting a parasite at the same time.

If I had a whole other set of equipment I'd move him into a TTM protocol as well.

He's been at therapeutic levels > 0.35 ppm for 4 days now day 5 will be tomorrow. Keep hoping as the parasites drop off hell rebound. He is at least swimming up in the water column rather than just ducking in and out of his PVC cave.

Given what happened to him today. I'm only giving slim odds of surviving the night. [emoji53]

2 rounds of fish CPR was not what I thought my evening would consist of, lol

Humblefish · Dec 21, 2015

It sounds like you are going above & beyond. No matter what happens now, kudos to you for giving it your all.

omykiss001 · Dec 22, 2015

Well the fish made it through the night again. Still struggling but alive. Poor bugger with his luck next will be a secondary bacterial infection. With all the handling yesterday I'm sure his already thin slime coat has been removed in places. Fingers crossed he begins to turn the corner soon. With all the fight this fish has shown it would be a shame if it didn't make it. Fingers crossed for the little bugger.

melypr1985 · Dec 22, 2015

Best of luck! Lots of good wishes coming your way

Humblefish · Dec 22, 2015

Not sure whether it will help or not, but you could give the fish a bath using either Methylene Blue (healing agent) or Acriflavine. Use one or the other, DON'T COMBINE THEM.

See here for more info on Acriflavine: http://www.fishvet.com/Acriflavine-MS.htm

"Ruby Reef Rally" also contains acriflavine.

omykiss001 · Dec 23, 2015

Humblefish said:
Not sure whether it will help or not, but you could give the fish a bath using either Methylene Blue (healing agent) or Acriflavine. Use one or the other, DON'T COMBINE THEM.

See here for more info on Acriflavine: http://www.fishvet.com/Acriflavine-MS.htm

"Ruby Reef Rally" also contains acriflavine.

Thanks might be a good idea, I don't have either on hand and don't know what the LFS carries but they might have one or the other. This fish survived another day. Not to be overly optimistic but the fish looked better yesterday and is still kicking as of this morning. I'd really like to see him take food first that would make me certain the fish is doing better. Good thing he started this whole ordeal nice and plump, giving him some reserves to use.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

Assuming this is a no brainer, but guessing antibiotics can't be dosed while copper is present in the tank. I have metro, furan-2, and erythromycin on hand. Just wonder best steps if an active secondary infection does break out.

Justiful · Dec 23, 2015

Interesting read.
Hope the fish makes it.

I know erythromycin is supposed to be safe to use with copper, when it is, it is for secondary infections as a result of the copper treatment. So if you suspect a secondary infection caused by prolonged exposure to your high copper dose it may be something to use. (BUT ASK SOMEONE ELSE FIRST TO CONFIRM, I am going off what I read, not something I have actually done.)

Best of luck. I will be following to see if he makes it.

Humblefish · Dec 23, 2015

omykiss001 said:
Assuming this is a no brainer, but guessing antibiotics can't be dosed while copper is present in the tank. I have metro, furan-2, and erythromycin on hand. Just wonder best steps if an active secondary infection does break out.

They actually can, and I have used all those you listed with copper before. Furan-2 would be your best bet if a secondary infection occurred. However, be mindful that the more medication you dump into the water, the more oxygen depletion that will occur; so be sure to point a powerhead or two towards the surface of the water. Also, keep a lookout for a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) which can occur when mixing meds.

omykiss001 · Dec 23, 2015

Humblefish said:
They actually can, and I have used all those you listed with copper before. Furan-2 would be your best bet if a secondary infection occurred. However, be mindful that the more medication you dump into the water, the more oxygen depletion that will occur; so be sure to point a powerhead or two towards the surface of the water. Also, keep a lookout for a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) which can occur when mixing meds.

Thanks good to know. I've already dropped the temp 2 degrees along with aggressive aeration to keep as much O2 in the water as possible while he was struggling with the ich.

Good news the PBT seems to be breathing slower today and is quite a bit more active. Just gotta get him to the 10 day mark them move him to the clean system assuming no infections occur. The other good news seems to be the areas where injuries occurred on his skin seem to be getting smaller and healing. So still have hope for this guy, eating will be the true test of course but think after all he's been through and still in copper has his appetite suppressed. Think if I can get him to 10 days them move to a copper free tank that will be the best test of all. Fingers still crossed for the little guy [emoji4]