Couple return manifold questions

[newbreefer316]

I'm setting up a return manifold for my frag system and have a couple quick questions. Return pump is a Fluval SP6 and I will be running 2 50g tanks and 4-6 reactors off the manifold. I may be cutting it close on flow so i'll probably put a union between ports 4 and 5 just in case I need to remove a couple spots.

Here are a couple of my questions

1. Would it make a major difference between hard and flex plumbing to the check valve right off the pump?

2. I was thinking of putting a ball valve in line between the pump and the first port on the manifold just as an added spot for control. Going from the pump up, should I have the check valve or ball valve first?

3. I wasn't thinking and bought all 1" valves for the manifold. Other than being unnecessarily bulky, do you see any issues with me reducing down to 3/4 or 1/2 on the output of the valves?

 

[mcarroll]

Are you sure you need all that for a frag system? Seems elaborate and complicated – maybe even a little theoretical vs practical – for the task at hand. Why so many reactors for example? Have you ever tried to balance the flow on so many outlets?

 

[newbreefer316]

Are you sure you need all that for a frag system? Seems elaborate and complicated – maybe even a little theoretical vs practical – for the task at hand. Why so many reactors for example? Have you ever tried to balance the flow on so many outlets?

It's all theoretical at this point at that's one of the main reasons I reached out on here. To start off, it's probably not a "frag system" in the traditional sense but more of grow out system to suit my hoarding tendencies with the option to connect a display in my office next door off of it. It'll be around 265g total volume when I add in the display. I've never built a system from the ground up before but I know that I'd like to err on the side of overkill so that I don't have to rework the entire system if I plan on changing things up down the line. That being said, I'm completely open to suggestions since I'm kind of just winging it at this point.

Here's the list of outlets that I'm currently considering.
1. Algae scrubber
2. UV - Usually not necessary but I will have a heavy euphylia stocking and want to do everything I can to prevent running into brown jelly again
3. Carbon
4. GFO or biopellets - Optional, I hope to have sufficient biological filtration so I don't need either
5. Calcium reactor - Optional as well, planning to run kalk through my ato and dose 2 part which I think should be sufficient for a mostly softy and lps system
6. Siporax reactor - I plan for this to be the heart of my biological filtration

Looking at it on paper it looks like overkill for sure, and I could already see some ways to trim the number of outlets down. Just don't want to build it then come back and kick myself later for not having the option for expansion.

 

[Rob77]

It's all theoretical at this point at that's one of the main reasons I reached out on here. To start off, it's probably not a "frag system" in the traditional sense but more of grow out system to suit my hoarding tendencies with the option to connect a display in my office next door off of it. It'll be around 265g total volume when I add in the display. I've never built a system from the ground up before but I know that I'd like to err on the side of overkill so that I don't have to rework the entire system if I plan on changing things up down the line. That being said, I'm completely open to suggestions since I'm kind of just winging it at this point.

Here's the list of outlets that I'm currently considering.
1. Algae scrubber
2. UV - Usually not necessary but I will have a heavy euphylia stocking and want to do everything I can to prevent running into brown jelly again
3. Carbon
4. GFO or biopellets - Optional, I hope to have sufficient biological filtration so I don't need either
5. Calcium reactor - Optional as well, planning to run kalk through my ato and dose 2 part which I think should be sufficient for a mostly softy and lps system
6. Siporax reactor - I plan for this to be the heart of my biological filtration

Looking at it on paper it looks like overkill for sure, and I could already see some ways to trim the number of outlets down. Just don't want to build it then come back and kick myself later for not having the option for expansion.

I got 2 1/2 inch lines and 2 3/4 lines off my manifold .... when I got my apex flow meter wow was I disappointed with the flow I had left going to the display ....so my advice is really think out what you need .....and get a flow meter they are awesome!

 

[mcarroll]

I know that I'd like to err on the side of overkill so that I don't have to rework the entire system if I plan on changing things up down the line.

I don't know if you've noticed, but trying to predict the future is notoriously hard.

In seriousness, it's hard enough to properly design for current needs – which is really "from 5-10+ years" so don't fool yourself! I don't recommend that folks generally give much "design mind" to "future tanks" for this reason.

Quite the opposite from your statement, every "opportunity" you take/make to go too far in the design costs more and takes more effort up front.....these efforts can all be in the way when you go to make a change.....making the change MORE costly and difficult instead of less. The flip side is where you want to be – with the simplest system that will do the job. This will be the easiest system to add onto or to make changes to.

So why so many reactors in the plan? You really shouldn't need any (I'm about 10 years in without one) but at most one reactor ought to be adequate for most circumstances – no manifold required.

There can even be significant advantages to keeping those grow-outs isolated from each other....disease isolation and risk limitation being two. Maybe consider just running a small skimmer or Tunze Reefpack in each system? Or even keep them isolated and use no filter at all...if it's mostly coral and you pay attention to aeration, this should be fine!

Simplicity ought be your target – KISS, not overkill. This isn't an overkill kind of hobby even though you do see lots of folks spin it that way. All the overkill is in the $$$ you will spend no matter what. Overkill just makes that factor worse and yet does not improve the design – so it should be left completely out IMO.

 

[Rob77]

I don't know if you've noticed, but trying to predict the future is notoriously hard.

In seriousness, it's hard enough to properly design for current needs – which is really "from 5-10+ years" so don't fool yourself! I don't recommend that folks generally give much "design mind" to "future tanks" for this reason.

Quite the opposite from your statement, every "opportunity" you take/make to go too far in the design costs more and takes more effort up front.....these efforts can all be in the way when you go to make a change.....making the change MORE costly and difficult instead of less. The flip side is where you want to be – with the simplest system that will do the job. This will be the easiest system to add onto or to make changes to.

So why so many reactors in the plan? You really shouldn't need any (I'm about 10 years in without one) but at most one reactor ought to be adequate for most circumstances – no manifold required.

There can even be significant advantages to keeping those grow-outs isolated from each other....disease isolation and risk limitation being two. Maybe consider just running a small skimmer or Tunze Reefpack in each system? Or even keep them isolated and use no filter at all...if it's mostly coral and you pay attention to aeration, this should be fine!

Simplicity ought be your target – KISS, not overkill. This isn't an overkill kind of hobby even though you do see lots of folks spin it that way. All the overkill is in the $$$ you will spend no matter what. Overkill just makes that factor worse and yet does not improve the design – so it should be left completely out IMO.

wish I could back up and think this way! I think its not hard to be an equipment junky in this hobby as well

 

[mcarroll]

I think its not hard to be an equipment junky in this hobby as well

You won't find any pics of my tank area for this reason.

 

[Rob77]

You won't find any pics of my tank area for this reason.

and lots of unused junk in the closet!

 

[newbreefer316]

Thanks for all the replies and info. I'll sit back down today and go over my plans to see where I can make my life easier at. I've almost got the drains plumbed, which is a little sketchy at the moment but I'll try to get some pictures uploaded and maybe do a build thread if this idea doesn't end up a complete failure.

 

[mcarroll]

Just FYI since it sounds like you've got the gist already...mostly just a pile of more thoughts to use as you see fit. All IMO, of course.

Here's the list of outlets that I'm currently considering.
1. Algae scrubber
2. UV - Usually not necessary but I will have a heavy euphylia stocking and want to do everything I can to prevent running into brown jelly again
3. Carbon
4. GFO or biopellets - Optional, I hope to have sufficient biological filtration so I don't need either
5. Calcium reactor - Optional as well, planning to run kalk through my ato and dose 2 part which I think should be sufficient for a mostly softy and lps system
6. Siporax reactor - I plan for this to be the heart of my biological filtration

Under normal circumstances none of those things will be required in the future so please no FOMO – Fear Of Missing Out.

I would specifically avoid 4, 5 and 6...#4 in particular. Live rock is the heart. Sand may be of equal importance if you have a 1"+ sand bed.

#1 (ATS) might be helpful after the system is up and established, but doesn't require the pre-commitment or added complexity of a manifold system.
#2 (UV) might be helpful but I've never heard more than a theoretical cause proposed to explain brown jelly....what makes you say UV will help? (not implying anything – honest question!!) UV also doesn't require a manifold even if you run it....at most a bypass installation for easier maintenance, but even that should be very optional depending on the UV unit's install instructions.
#3 (activated carbon) is fine just to run in a mesh bag as-needed, or if you have a Tunze skimmer, just put it in the post-filter. I do rarely run carbon this way, and even ran GFO once this way. A few months' time out of around ten years and hardly worthy of a manifold system. Bunny hunting with a bazooka.

I would not do any reactors or manifold until you have an actual need in front of you.....then design for that need. Individual pumps per application will be a better way to deploy one of these tools if/when its need arises.

BTW, plumbing multiple tanks into one sump also doesn't require a manifold like you'd have for reactors and you don't even have to tie them into a common pump. Running a drain and return for each tank is even somewhat ideal from a redundancy perspective.....and fine for a few or even several tanks.

2¢

 

[Rob77]

Bunny hunting with a bazooka.

hahahahahahaha ......... you my friend are awesome!