CP frustrations/observations - biofilter damage and appetite suppression

[Claus84]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of moving all my fish over to my new 300g and have them all in various QT setups with CP (Avloclor tablets) pre-dosed at 10mg/l into newly setup tanks each containing one or more internal filters with media which has been seeded with bottled bacteria and cycled in a bucket of heated saltwater for the last two months with regular ammonia dosing and ammonia/nitrtite testing (i.e. about as solid a filter as you could want).

I moved the fish in to QT on 12/12/18 and noticed ammonia creeping up in one of the QT's on 14/12/18 so dosed prime accordingly and added additional seeded media. Today all 3 QT's dosed with CP are cloudy and have ammonia building up, I've dosed prime and added an airstone to each.

I have used CP on a couple of occasions now and it seems to damage the biofilter each time, in the past I have put it down to the fact I had used bottled bacteria and set them up in a rush but this time the filter media was fully cycled. I notice from reading just about everything I can find on R2R and other forums that this can, but doesn't always seem to happen to others. I'm wondering if this is more common when using tablets rather than powdered CP (which I can't get in the UK), otherwise it seems strange that this is isn't an overly common occurence. Can anyone shed any light on this?

I'd also be keen to hear others experiences with appetite suppression, my bangaii, clowns and mandarin haven't eaten a thing since going in to CP on 12/12/18 (they came from my DT) whereas my juv blueline and majestic angels are eating well still (both came from another, non-sterile QT).
I'm wondering how much the tank move itself is a factor as both angels are used to being in fairly barren QT's whereas the others had been comfortably living in my reef for the last 2 years so it may be more of a shock to them. All my fish are fat and healthy including the mandarin but i'm twitchy about some of them not eating after 4 days, I have no idea how long fish can go without eating, at what point should I be worried?

None of the above fish have shown signs of any external parasites but also they have never been treated so i'm quarantining in order to have a complete fresh start in the new tank. At the moment, assuming there are no signs of disease and given i'm chasing ammonia and paranoid about them not eating i'll be moving them into the DT after 8-10 days.

Apologies for the ramble, just a little frustrated that trying to do the best for my livestock seems to just be putting them in increased danger.

Thanks

Nick

 

[EmdeReef]

What kind of filter media did you use to seed with bacteria? CP shouldn’t hurt the biofilter, the cloudiness after adding fish to a newly cycled system is pretty common.

CP will suppress appetite in some fish, that’s to be expected, not much one can do about it but monitor and discontinue treatment.

 

[Claus84]

What kind of filter media did you use to seed with bacteria? CP shouldn’t hurt the biofilter, the cloudiness after adding fish to a newly cycled system is pretty common.

CP will suppress appetite in some fish, that’s to be expected, not much one can do about it but monitor and discontinue treatment.

I used a large piece of filter foam around 1" thick, has some in an internal filter and the rest loose in a bucket with the flow from the filter and a heater for a couple of months, I forget which bottled bacteria I used but the foam was fully cycled. I dosed to 2ppm ammonia, monitored levels incl nitrite then added again etc, did this a few extra times even when the it was dropping back down to 0ppm after 24 hours as I had time to kill before my new tank arrived.

With regards to the appetite suppression, how many days do you think would be safe to leave them without food before discontinuing the treatment?

On a previous quarantine run I did a little test to see if the CP was giving a false positive on my ammonia kit (API), I compared samples of 0 ppm DT water with CP and without CP and both results came back the same. I know API sometimes gets a bad rep but I find them the easiest kit to use and generally test them against a DT sample for comparison so i'm pretty confident that they are showing an ammonia reading.

Thanks

Nick

 

[EmdeReef]

Prime will give you false positives with API test kits.

a few days without food up to a week is usually ok without issues. Keep in mind that some species need to feed up to several times a day.

Some fish species can go longer. I would usually wait 3-4 days depending on what fish is treated.

 

[Claus84]

Prime will give you false positives with API test kits.

a few days without food up to a week is usually ok without issues. Keep in mind that some species need to feed up to several times a day.

Some fish species can go longer. I would usually wait 3-4 days depending on what fish is treated.

Yesterday was 5 days without eating for the mandarin so I went ahead and moved it into a brand new 4.5 gallon with a new filter and piece of cycled rock (I used dry rock so no pests or diseases) from my as yet fishless 300g. It hasn't visibly lost much weight which is good but I dont want to push it any longer. My bangaai still isnt eating in the CP but he is a tank so i'm not as worried about him wasting away any time soon.

My current plan is to move it to the DT on thursday, that will be a total of 5 days at full strength CP (pre-dosed) and then no more than 72 hours in the new med-free QT tank.

Thanks

Nick

 

[EmdeReef]

Yesterday was 5 days without eating for the mandarin so I went ahead and moved it into a brand new 4.5 gallon with a new filter and piece of cycled rock (I used dry rock so no pests or diseases) from my as yet fishless 300g. It hasn't visibly lost much weight which is good but I dont want to push it any longer. My bangaai still isnt eating in the CP but he is a tank so i'm not as worried about him wasting away any time soon.

My current plan is to move it to the DT on thursday, that will be a total of 5 days at full strength CP (pre-dosed) and then no more than 72 hours in the new med-free QT tank.

Thanks

Nick

What are you feeding your mandarin? Most wild caught won’t accept prepared foods regardless of meds. You need an established pod population for most mandarins to survive. In such a small tank you will have to be adding live pods unless it’s one of the captive bred.

 

[Claus84]

What are you feeding your mandarin? Most wild caught won’t accept prepared foods regardless of meds. You need an established pod population for most mandarins to survive. In such a small tank you will have to be adding live pods unless it’s one of the captive bred.

He is from Biota originally, had him 2 years now. In my DT he was eating BBS from a feeder (PaulB style) which I hatched every day, whatever pods he could find and absolutely loved vit/hufa enriched brine, I think he may have been eating pellets too on occasion but the live BBS have kept him nice and fat. I did put a live BBS feeder in the original QT but he showed no interest at all, he hasn't even gone after the frozen brine either. I was surprised to see that the brine shrimp seemed to be staying alive in the CP.

I have freshly seeded the 300g with pods and he will also have a couple of BBS feeders to keep him going in the new tank.

The only fish that seem completely unphased by the CP are my CB majestic and blueline angels, they started eating right away whereas it took 6 days for my clowns to eat and my banggai and mandarin completely refused food up to now.

 

[Claus84]

I have a new load of pods coming tomorrow so the tiny QT will be full of pods for his last 24 hours in residence, hopefully this will get his attention. i think he should settle once he is the new DT for a day or two.