Crazy High ALK!

CaliforniaCrisp · Sep 1, 2015

Hey All,

I am slowly starting to wrap the chemistry side around my tiny brain. Recently I have had a series of events that has put me at one of my lowest mindset in the hobby. I had 2 Mag-7s and a Gyre FX150 blow out on me all in the same week. (I clean them every other month) and I think my ALK is to blame (is that weird to blame ALK for this?) I tested it and it was at 17+!! I know Cal and Alk can bind and cause substrate to clump together and bind. I have a bare bottom tank, and a few baskets for shrooms with crushed coral in them, along with my refugium. I have noticed it all is pretty binded together. Could this be a similar reaction to why my pumps burned out? The pumps then caused huge phosphates because I didn't notice it for a few days, which then brought on the cyno. Along with a huge temp drop because apparently my heater wasnt strong enough and the Mag7 was the one keeping the tank warm. Haha!

Background on my tank:
It is a 120 flat mix reef (very little SPS)
Ran 2 mag-7s but now one Jebao DCT8000
Gyre FX150 (pointed at the top for disturbance in the top of the water)
ReefOctopus 150 classic slim (Great airaition)
Red Sea Coral Pro Salt (water changes weekly - biweekly 15%-20%)
Dosing Red Sea Foundation Mag, Cal (I have ALK but haven't dosed it for months)

Perimeters:
Temp: 78
Salinity: 1.024
PH: 8.18 (day) 8.0(night)
Cal: 420
Mag: 1250
Alk: 14 now (was 17)

Any feedback is welcomed. I am still trying to lower the Alk. Bumped my Cal up but I am assuming they will just bind together and then cause more issues? Idk, I am lost now...

Cheers,
AW

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 1, 2015

CaliforniaCrisp said:
I had 2 Mag-7s and a Gyre FX150 blow out on me all in the same week. (I clean them every other month) and I think my ALK is to blame (is that weird to blame ALK for this?)

High alkalinity leads to high precipitation of calcium carbonate on pumps and it may have caused them to sieze up.

I don't think the pumps can cause elevated phosphate, however, no matter what happens to them ) except perhaps if organisms die).

Do you use tap water? That can be a big source of alkalinity.

You do not add anything to alter pH, right?

CaliforniaCrisp · Sep 1, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I don't think the pumps can cause elevated phosphate, however, no matter what happens to them ) except perhaps if organisms die).

Do you use tap water? That can be a big source of alkalinity.

You do not add anything to alter pH, right?

I know the pump didnt cause the phosphates, but them being out and causing less flow and turn over in my filtration I believe is the colprate for that.. Plus when I removed the pump 2 feet of still water fell into the tank (roughly 5 days old based on Apex readings) It was just something to add to my sh** list.. hahah

I have a RODI unit that was changed out 2 months ago. I did not think about testing the alk in there. I will do that tonight. Suggestions on lowering that if it is high?

I do not add anything for PH. I run my Refuge light opposite of light schedule to try and maintain around 8.2...

Joshua Cline · Sep 1, 2015

following

Jeffys · Sep 1, 2015

Any new batches of salt? Just curious?

cginter · Sep 1, 2015

You say you haven't added alk in months and it went from 14 to 17. So that being said, your either adding alk, or you tested wrong at some point or your adding salt.

I don't think alk can raise without supplementing it. ( I could be wrong).

As far as RO/DI water. It should be at 0-1ppm and shouldn't have anything in it. (Alk,cal,mg).

With all that aside, your pumps could seize. You could try and soak them in vinegar water for a couple days and give them a good scrub and see if they work again.

CaliforniaCrisp · Sep 1, 2015

Jeffys said:
Any new batches of salt? Just curious?

I buy the giant bags of the Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. I may have used a new bag, but its the same brand over all.. unless its a faulty batch.

cginter said:
You say you haven't added alk in months and it went from 14 to 17. So that being said, your either adding alk, or you tested wrong at some point or your adding salt.

I don't think alk can raise without supplementing it. ( I could be wrong).

As far as RO/DI water. It should be at 0-1ppm and shouldn't have anything in it. (Alk,cal,mg).

With all that aside, your pumps could seize. You could try and soak them in vinegar water for a couple days and give them a good scrub and see if they work again.

Thanks cginter, I do not dose the alk. It is unplugged from the doser and has been for months. there is a 12.8 Alk reading in the Coral Pro salt, I assume that is the only amount of alk that is being added and I have no control over that as all salts have Alk in them.

The RODI water reads a TDS of 0ppm. Did not realize that Alk would show up in TDS reading. Good to know. But I belive my testing is correct. I have used 2 different Red Sea Alk test kits, Elose Alk Test kit, and API Alk test kit. All read close to each other.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 1, 2015

If the alk is now down to 14 dKH, I'd do nothing but let it keep dropping, but you can lower it if you want with water changes or adding acid (or add acid to a water change, which would be much better than adding it to the tank).

I would keep thinking if there is anything you are adding that could possibly have alk in it. Try measuring the alk of the new salt water too.

Any chance you mixed up the Red Sea Foundation products? Calcium cannot decline if alkalinity is not declining or being added back.

Jeffys · Sep 1, 2015

CaliforniaCrisp said:
I buy the giant bags of the Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. I may have used a new bag, but its the same brand over all.. unless its a faulty batch.

Thanks cginter, I do not dose the alk. It is unplugged from the doser and has been for months. there is a 12.8 Alk reading in the Coral Pro salt, I assume that is the only amount of alk that is being added and I have no control over that as all salts have Alk in them.

The RODI water reads a TDS of 0ppm. Did not realize that Alk would show up in TDS reading. Good to know. But I belive my testing is correct. I have used 2 different Red Sea Alk test kits, Elose Alk Test kit, and API Alk test kit. All read close to each other.

That could be one thing, I would test it just for S&G

CaliforniaCrisp · Sep 1, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
If the alk is now down to 14 dKH, I'd do nothing but let it keep dropping, but you can lower it if you want with water changes or adding acid (or add acid to a water change, which would be much better than adding it to the tank).

I would keep thinking if there is anything you are adding that could possibly have alk in it. Try measuring the alk of the new salt water too.

Any chance you mixed up the Red Sea Foundation products? Calcium cannot decline if alkalinity is not declining or being added back.

I am going to naturally let it lower I guess with water changes. (dont even want to mess with acids. lol) I can't think of anything that I added that could cause it to go up...

My only thought out of all this was that stuff that has binded up in the crushed coral was breaking up and was causing the alk to rise. Haha, but this is just how my mind works and is probably not how chemistry works..

Appreciate your responses.

CaliforniaCrisp · Sep 8, 2015

I just wanted to give everyone an update and let you know how stupid I am.....

I was re-plumbing my tank this weekend and was looking at my 3 dosing containers. I noticed the "ALK" jug was white inside (Kind of separated). This was not being added to the tank though. I then had just mixed up a batch of the "MAG" (Reminder, I use Red Sea Foundation - Dry) and it looked the same as the "ALK".... I then remembered when I mixed what I thought was mag, it was clear.....

The mixing amounts for ALK and MAG are extremely different. ALK is like 3:1 (Not exact, just estimating) and MAG is 1:1 (Not exact, just estimating). When I did do the initial mixing I mixed MAG 3:1 and ALK 1:1 and then mixed the bottles up apparently as someone had asked if this is possible. (And I thought to myself, NO... Why would I do something stupid like that) Well.... I did......

Sunday evening I dumped all my supplements out and ordered new ones. I had MAG so I mixed a new batch up and got that back on the doser, and my ALK will be fine as it is still slowly lowering. at 13 last I checked.

Thank you all for helping out. Much appreciated!

Reef On!