Crazy Question-Taking a fish on vacation

[Lost in the Sauce]

That's fine I don't want to be a part of something that enable poor pet owners

 

[reeferguy3303]

If you don’t have anything nice to say, please see yourself out. No need for your rude comments or insults. I did over a year of research before getting him. That also includes conversations with professionals. My only problem was going on vacation. I asked for help. Problem solved. Your non-constructive criticism is uncalled for. You don’t even know anything about my tank except what you think you know and that’s just assumptions. Take your abusive language somewhere else. I didn’t ask for sympathy. I asked for options so I could secure his wellbeing while I was on vacation.

If you did one year of research you’d know the fish would be okay left alone while on vacation because your tank would have a self sustainable copepod population

 

[Tired]

"People are more likely to listen to what you're saying if you say it politely" isn't "soft". If someone asks a question, and I barge in with "listen up, stupid, I'm gonna tell you how you're wrong!", they aren't going to want to listen to me. And they'd be right- if I feel the need to be incredibly rude right off, I'm demonstrating that I'm not great at communicating. Especially if their title says something like "crazy idea" or "weird question", something that indicates they know they're asking something a bit out there.

If you want to encourage people to listen and learn, the best way to do that is by being polite, or at least being neutral in tone. Giving people the impression that questions will be met with scorn, accusations of being hopeless, and condemnation will only make them inclined to go elsewhere, or to not ask at all. It affects not just the person asking, but anyone else who might be thinking of asking questions. In short: if any party in this thread is enabling poor pet care, it's the people actively being hostile towards someone who's asked a question, not the person who's looking for answers. If you see someone who's saying that they're concerned about a fish getting enough to eat, and that they're willing to go to a lot of trouble to keep the fish fed, /even if/ their solution is impractical, that is someone who's trying to take proper care of their pet. Y'all chill.

OP, I would be curious to see a photo of your tank. We might be able to assuage your concerns. You might also consider checking for copepods after lights out, or in any tucked-away crannies in your tank- I'd bet you have more than you think. Unless it's a very new or very small tank, it probably has enough to last for awhile. The concern with mandarins is that they'll wipe out the pod population long-term, and 10 days isn't long-term.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

Hopefully, I can avoid more harassment and name calling in private messaging but I will get an updated picture of my tank for those who want to actually want to help.

 

[Peace River]

Hopefully, I can avoid more harassment and name calling in private messaging but I will get an updated picture of my tank for those who want to actually want to help.

I'm sorry to hear that was your experience. That is not the R2R experience that we expect. For you or anyone else, if you are experiencing harassment or name calling in private messages please use the report feature to bring it to the attention of the moderator team. Those behaviors are not in line with the terms of service and are not acceptable.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

I'm sorry to hear that was your experience. That is not the R2R experience that we expect. For you or anyone else, if you are experiencing harassment or name calling in private messages please use the report feature to bring it to the attention of the moderator team. Those behaviors are not in line with the terms of service and are not acceptable.

I tried to find it. In the end I just

I'm sorry to hear that was your experience. That is not the R2R experience that we expect. For you or anyone else, if you are experiencing harassment or name calling in private messages please use the report feature to bring it to the attention of the moderator team. Those behaviors are not in line with the terms of service and are not acceptable.

I tried to find it but in the end I ended up blocking them.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

I think I should be able to double the rocks in here and still have room. It’s 20lbs rock and 20lb sand. I have been dosing Phyto-feast then switched to RG Complete at low dosage at 2drops a gallon for pods.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Since when does a healthy fish starve to death in 10 days??

To that end, it is not like your tank is suddenly going to go sterile the moment you step out the door anyway? So 4-5 days without "fresh" pods being dumped in?

Given that simple fact, the plan is to stress a fish by scooping him out, sloshing him around on a trip, giving him room light and a plastic container, trying to feed him on an oddball schedule, swing his temperature and water parameters around in his little jar etc.??????

I can't believe

A) believe that this is even a serious discussion
B) that people are encouraging in any serious form

Pour some pods in if you are worried and go on vacation. That super worried, have a neighbor dump pods in for you. You don't need a professional fish sitter. The 80 your old lady or 15 year old kid down the street can do it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I remember a youtube reefer describing the Mandarine as the only fish that would survive if your tank wasn't fed for a year. Besides that, your fish likely spent far longer unfed when it was collected and transported before arriving at your lfs. this is why they often arrive with sunken stomachs.
in short, go on your vacation and your fish will be fine

20 year old 75 Gallon - no skimmer, ATS or water changes for 6+ years. Scopas Tang, Coral Beauty, Arc Eye hawkfish. Tank fed maybe 10 times in 6 years (a pinch of Optimum Nutrition flakes or Thera A+). Yes, that is a feeding at best every 6-8 months.

Tang and Angel are fat and happy. Arc Eye passed - but he was fat and happy and easily 7 years old if not older. Tang and Angel are 10-12 years old now if not older. I lost track.

 

[Tired]

Ah, okay, I see part of your problem. Mandarins really do best in mature tanks, and this is not a mature tank. One thing that would help the pod population a ton is to get some nice aquacultured live rock, which will be crawling with microfauna and the algae/etc that they live on. There are a couple of places that sell 10-lb packages of rock shipped to your door, like KP Aquatics and Tampa Bay Saltwater, that would be worth looking at. That's more of a long-term concern, though. In the short term, dumping a bunch of pods into the tank (preferably also with some live phyto) will work fine for a vacation.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

Ah, okay, I see part of your problem. Mandarins really do best in mature tanks, and this is not a mature tank. One thing that would help the pod population a ton is to get some nice aquacultured live rock, which will be crawling with microfauna and the algae/etc that they live on. There are a couple of places that sell 10-lb packages of rock shipped to your door, like KP Aquatics and Tampa Bay Saltwater, that would be worth looking at. That's more of a long-term concern, though. In the short term, dumping a bunch of pods into the tank (preferably also with some live phyto) will work fine for a vacation.

Thank you. Petco sells "aquacultured" rocks as well in their tanks, would that be an option? I know buying a fish from there is typically not preferred.

 

[Tired]

I would expect a lot of pathogen contamination from Petco, and the rock also wouldn't be anywhere near as good as stuff that's been taken from the ocean and stored briefly in holding tanks before being shipped to you. If it is even ocean rock at all. You want minimal time for all the critters to die off, for maximum benefit.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

I would expect a lot of pathogen contamination from Petco, and the rock also wouldn't be anywhere near as good as stuff that's been taken from the ocean and stored briefly in holding tanks before being shipped to you. If it is even ocean rock at all. You want minimal time for all the critters to die off, for maximum benefit.

That's what I was wonder on Petco. I'm looking into both places you suggested. Once they arrive, what do I need to do (if anything) with the rocks before I put them in my tank? I've never bought live rock before.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I think I should be able to double the rocks in here and still have room. It’s 20lbs rock and 20lb sand. I have been dosing Phyto-feast then switched to RG Complete at low dosage at 2drops a gallon for pods.

When they say a picture is worth a thousand words, this is why.

Smaller tanks with no sump, refugium, and light rock scapes are really not suitable for a mandarin long term. I know you say that you researched this fish for a year. I think you may have wanted the fish so badly, that you went ahead anyway with it, in a sub optimal environment.

Realistically, without some sort of protected breeding area, that tank in its current state will constantly need to be redosed with pods. They won't be able to build up a large enough breeding population to support the Mandarin on it's own.

With that said, your eyes are a terrible way to Gauge how robust a pod population you have, when you have an active pod hunter in there. They don't just come hang out on the glass, when they are being hunted. They will go deep into rock crevasses.

To give yourself a fighting chance, I would figure out some way or another to get at least one, preferably to of the double stack pod hotels, then integrate it into your scape.

I think you've already gotten the picture that taking it on vacation is a bad idea. Time to move into what you can do it help the fish, with what you have.

I would be working very hard to get that fish eating frozen foods ASAP. It may be your only chance of fattening him up.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

When they say a picture is worth a thousand words, this is why.

Smaller tanks with no sump, refugium, and light rock scapes are really not suitable for a mandarin long term. I know you say that you researched this fish for a year. I think you may have wanted the fish so badly, that you went ahead anyway with it, in a sub optimal environment.

Realistically, without some sort of protected breeding area, that tank in its current state will constantly need to be redosed with pods. They won't be able to build up a large enough breeding population to support the Mandarin on it's own.

With that said, your eyes are a terrible way to Gauge how robust a pod population you have, when you have an active pod hunter in there. They don't just come hang out on the glass, when they are being hunted. They will go deep into rock crevasses.

To give yourself a fighting chance, I would figure out some way or another to get at least one, preferably to of the double stack pod hotels, then integrate it into your scape.

I think you've already gotten the picture that taking it on vacation is a bad idea. Time to move into what you can do it help the fish, with what you have.

I would be working very hard to get that fish eating frozen foods ASAP. It may be your only chance of fattening him up.

He's not going with me. I already made a post about it. However, I've been working with him on frozen. He eats some but not enough to say he graduated onto frozen even part time. I had to pull him off frozen due him losing a little weight and he's putting it back on. I do know he loves his live BBS which are gut loaded with phytoplankton. But, I am noticing my last batch died after giving them RG Complete. I'm not sure what that was about but the copepod culture liked it. It just exploded on pods a day or so ago.

 

[Tired]

You don't actually need to gut load BBS. When they're freshly hatched is when they're most nutritious, due to their yolk sac. They won't eat anything until a couple days after they hatch, at which point they've lost the yolk. Just dump them straight in as soon as they hatch. Gut-loading is for when you've kept them around too long and they've used up their yolk.

Live rock is best put into a separate container with circulation, heat, and light, to make sure there's no major die-off happening. You can use a rubbermaid tub or similar container, no need for an aquarium. Pop in a heater and a basic pump, set it in indirect sunlight if you don't have a spare light, and test frequently for ammonia over the course of about a week. Use that time to check for crabs and whatnot at night. Bottle traps and/or forceps will deal with the crabs. Once you get to no ammonia, it can go in the tank.

That said, live rock still won't get your tank to self-sustaining. You do need to leave room for your fish to move, and that tank just isn't large enough to sustain a mandarin's appetite for pods. It would be more of a way to supplement, to make frozen a more viable possibility. Remember, a mandarin's digestive tract is set up for a constant stream of highly nutritious foods; one or two meals a day of frozen food won't keep one fed. They don't have a stomach to keep the food in and extract all the nutrients from it like we do. Frozen food can supplement a pod diet, not replace it.

 

[SeaHorseQueen]

You don't actually need to gut load BBS. When they're freshly hatched is when they're most nutritious, due to their yolk sac. They won't eat anything until a couple days after they hatch, at which point they've lost the yolk. Just dump them straight in as soon as they hatch. Gut-loading is for when you've kept them around too long and they've used up their yolk.

Live rock is best put into a separate container with circulation, heat, and light, to make sure there's no major die-off happening. You can use a rubbermaid tub or similar container, no need for an aquarium. Pop in a heater and a basic pump, set it in indirect sunlight if you don't have a spare light, and test frequently for ammonia over the course of about a week. Use that time to check for crabs and whatnot at night. Bottle traps and/or forceps will deal with the crabs. Once you get to no ammonia, it can go in the tank.

That said, live rock still won't get your tank to self-sustaining. You do need to leave room for your fish to move, and that tank just isn't large enough to sustain a mandarin's appetite for pods. It would be more of a way to supplement, to make frozen a more viable possibility. Remember, a mandarin's digestive tract is set up for a constant stream of highly nutritious foods; one or two meals a day of frozen food won't keep one fed. They don't have a stomach to keep the food in and extract all the nutrients from it like we do. Frozen food can supplement a pod diet, not replace it.

That’s what the LFS told me to do on the BBS post 24hrs. He told me to upgrade tanks which I was looking into a 75g+ tank for him and moving my culture tank into this 20g. But that would still take a year from now to establish it anyways correct? The more I research what an established tank is the more it just comes down to not months but whether it self sustain it’s parameters?

 

[Tired]

Right, gut-loading BBS is needed after they've been hatched for awhile. Ideally you hatch and then immediately feed them.

If you move your current rock into a new tank, that new tank will be as established as the current tank is. If you start a new tank with some ocean live rock (and you really wouldn't need much), you get years worth of maturity instantly. A large tank started off with even a bit of ocean rock would be an excellent home for a mandarin, and a tank that size, if set up properly, should support him without you having to worry about culturing or feeding him at all. Once it got established, that is.

The part of tank maturity that we're interested in right now is the ecosystem. All the algae and bacteria and pods and things living on the live rock, the stuff that makes the rock live. You can find all sorts of guestimates on how long it will take a tank to get to being mature, but the fact of the matter is that it varies hugely depending on what you start with, what's added, and how favorable conditions are for that stuff to grow. A tank started with dry rock and kept at 0 nutrients for three years would be far less mature than a tank started a month ago with ocean rock and kept at plenty of nutrients.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Sorry but dumping some live rock into a tank does not created an aged or established ecosystem. It helps… a bit.

 

[Tired]

You're right, it's not an instantly mature system. However, it creates a cycled tank with quite a lot more microfauna than dry rock, and it can help things along pretty significantly. You should see how many pods I have in anywhere I've ever put live rock.