Critique my plumbing

[srobertb]

This is the return assembly for my aquarium. It connects two return pumps but only one is running at a time. I have placed ball valves inline so I can remove the check valves for maintenance or flip a ball valve if a check valve fails.

It is…heavy…and complex. Any help on streamlining this bad boy? It’s 2, 1.5 return lines into a 2” manifold, a 2” flow sensor, then back to 1.5” (which is what the tank is drilled for).

 

[Sean Clark]

To streamline it I would eliminate the check valves and implement a siphon break at the top of the return ouput.
Other than that, I don't see how you could simply the design.

 

[Weasel1960]

@srobertb wouldn’t it be easier to build it as a by pass around the check valve. Like a water meter installation.

@Sean Clark how do yo put a siphon break on a supply line?

 

[srobertb]

To streamline it I would eliminate the check valves and implement a siphon break at the top of the return ouput.
Other than that, I don't see how you could simply the design.

Each side is hooked up to a return pump. Only one return pumps runs at a time with the other being a backup. I need the check valves in this design.

 

[srobertb]

@srobertb wouldn’t it be easier to build it as a by pass around the check valve. Like a water meter installation.

@Sean Clark how do yo put a siphon break on a supply line?

Can you expand on that? I don’t quite understand. Do you have a diagram?

 

[Sean Clark]

how do yo put a siphon break on a supply line?

On a return line? There are a few ways. You can add a small air inlet to the high point of the return outlets. You can add a siphon stopper design to the return outlets.
The idea is to allow a way for air to enter the pipe when a power or pump failure would happen. This achieves the same function as the check valves with zero moving parts.

 

[Jason_MrFrags]

Why plumb for 2 if your only running 1 at a time? Plumb for 1, get rid of check valve. Create a siphon break in the tank return line. Put 2nd pump on shelf as backup to swap out if necessary.

Typically 2 return pump are run independently of each other with their own lines.

 

[Sean Clark]

Each side is hooked up to a return pump. Only one return pumps runs at a time with the other being a backup. I need the check valves in this design.

I read that part yet missed it. My mistake.

 

[Weasel1960]

Can you expand on that? I don’t quite understand. Do you have a diagram?

Picture below is a bypass. Top valve normally closed, other 2 open in your case black piece would be a check valve. For maintenance close both side valves and open top. Disconnect check valve, clean, then reinstall. Would require only one pump and one check valve, keep others for spares.

 

[srobertb]

Picture below is a bypass. Top valve normally closed, other 2 open in your case black piece would be a check valve. For maintenance close both side valves and open top. Disconnect check valve, clean, then reinstall. Would require only one pump and one check valve, keep others for spares.

Thank you for this. We travel so I want to be able to remotely switch over pumps if one dies.

 

[Fort Salty]

I don't think you need the check valves or the ball valves. That would eliminate a lot of the weight. When the water level reaches the mouth of your inlet, no more water will drain into your sump. It works pretty conveniently as long as your sump is sized with enough room for the back flow. The earlier suggestion of drilling a hole in your line is a solution is your sump doesn't have enough room. Just mark the water line and drill a small hole a little below that line to let in air.

I have a line marked on my return section for maximum water height. As long as I don't fill above that line, there is room for the tank to drain into the sump when I shut the power off.

I don't see any way to reduce your parts and weight otherwise. There are "sanitary drains" designed to coerce water flow in one direction; I'm not sure how well they would work under pressure however.

FS

 

[Fort Salty]

If your pumps are controllable, you could run both at half rate.

 

[srobertb]

On a return line? There are a few ways. You can add a small air inlet to the high point of the return outlets. You can add a siphon stopper design to the return outlets.
The idea is to allow a way for air to enter the pipe when a power or pump failure would happen. This achieves the same function as the check valves with zero moving parts.

The issue here isn’t backsiphon, which I’ve accounted for in the sump volume. The issue is that with 2 return pumps on the same line and only one running at a time, the check valve ensures that the water doesn’t flow back down and into the sump but instead up into the tank.

 

[srobertb]

I don't think you need the check valves or the ball valves. That would eliminate a lot of the weight. When the water level reaches the mouth of your inlet, no more water will drain into your sump. It works pretty conveniently as long as your sump is sized with enough room for the back flow. The earlier suggestion of drilling a hole in your line is a solution is your sump doesn't have enough room. Just mark the water line and drill a small hole a little below that line to let in air.

I have a line marked on my return section for maximum water height. As long as I don't fill above that line, there is room for the tank to drain into the sump when I shut the power off.

I don't see any way to reduce your parts and weight otherwise. There are "sanitary drains" designed to coerce water flow in one direction; I'm not sure how well they would work under pressure however.

FS

As stated, I’m running two return pumps

I don't think you need the check valves or the ball valves. That would eliminate a lot of the weight. When the water level reaches the mouth of your inlet, no more water will drain into your sump. It works pretty conveniently as long as your sump is sized with enough room for the back flow. The earlier suggestion of drilling a hole in your line is a solution is your sump doesn't have enough room. Just mark the water line and drill a small hole a little below that line to let in air.

I have a line marked on my return section for maximum water height. As long as I don't fill above that line, there is room for the tank to drain into the sump when I shut the power off.

I don't see any way to reduce your parts and weight otherwise. There are "sanitary drains" designed to coerce water flow in one direction; I'm not sure how well they would work under pressure however.

FS

thanks. My sump volume accounts for the extra water volume in case of a pump failure. Since I’m running two returns into a single pipe, and it’s impossible to balance them both at 50%, I need the check valves to ensure water doesn’t flow up one pipe then back down through the other pump.

 

[srobertb]

If your pumps are controllable, you could run both at half rate.

The consensus seems to be that two pumps in parallel (if that’s the right term) can not feed the same return line. One will inevitably be fighting the other.

 

[Sean Clark]

The issue here isn’t backsiphon, which I’ve accounted for in the sump volume. The issue is that with 2 return pumps on the same line and only one running at a time, the check valve ensures that the water doesn’t flow back down and into the sump but instead up into the tank.

Yes you replied to my misunderstanding earlier to which I replied:

I read that part yet missed it. My mistake.

I was replying to the post I quoted:

@srobertb wouldn’t it be easier to build it as a by pass around the check valve. Like a water meter installation.

@Sean Clark how do yo put a siphon break on a supply line?

 

[ScottD]

Would it be possible to use solenoid powered valves instead of the check valves and ball valves? The assumption would be that you have a controller like an apex or ghl, etc to turn the backup pump on and open/close valves. Or my other thought would be can you run both pumps in series instead of parallel?