crushed

[Robb1414]

Just a follow up on my last post. It's been a few days and I have not lost anymore fish! They are all happy in the ten gallon hospital tank - a bit tight, but they are good. Keeping ammonia in check!

As far as my DT, I did a 50% water changed, scrubbed the crap out of the glass, and increased my salinity to 1.027. I will let it sit for two days and then completely clean my two Eheim canisters and replace all media (I did this yesterday too.
I am going to let it sit without adding any of my livestock back for a full week. My clean up crew seems to be fine - haven't noticed anything unusual with them. I will of course check all parameters before adding anything back to the tank.

I am also VERY slowly increasing salinity in my hospital tank to get it to 1.027.

Does that sound about right?!?

 

[Uncle99]

When you stirred your sand bed, did you stir most of it,
There are areas in the sand bed which are very oxygen depleted and stirring of a sand bed could have released ammonia into the column, suffocated the larger fish, but, combined with time and the water change have returned the ammonia to zero.

When stirring the sand bed, which is really not a requirement, it’s best to stir only a small section at a time.
We want to maximize the “life” in the sand bed which will keep it clean all the time.

In a fish only tank, 1.021-1.023 is best, lower salinity eases respiration for fish, thus, stress is lower, and when stress is lower, immune systems are higher.

 

[Robb1414]

When you stirred your sand bed, did you stir most of it,
There are areas in the sand bed which are very oxygen depleted and stirring of a sand bed could have released ammonia into the column, suffocated the larger fish, but, combined with time and the water change have returned the ammonia to zero.

When stirring the sand bed, which is really not a requirement, it’s best to stir only a small section at a time.
We want to maximize the “life” in the sand bed which will keep it clean all the time.

In a fish only tank, 1.021-1.023 is best, lower salinity eases respiration for fish, thus, stress is lower, and when stress is lower, immune systems are higher.

I am so confused. I had my tank at 1.02 and was told to raise it to 1.025-1.027. Should I lower it back down to 1.021? My fish hospital is at 1.022...I can lower that too. HELP, please! Thanks for all the other info - I will take that into account. Thanks!

 

[Uncle99]

Don’t chase this number, hydrometers and refractometers are not perfect.
I would (and do) keep my tank at 1.025 because of corals.
Otherwise, for fish only (and no corals) anywhere in the 1.021-1.023 is fine, the challenge is not the exact number but keeping it at whatever number in the range you pick.

So, if you. choose 1.023 for example, then keep it there always, all the time.

if you add Corals, the push it up to 1.025-1.026 and again....stable stable stable.

Hope that’s a bit clearer.

If you don’t have an ATO, you may consider this piece of equipment. It will keep the salinity on point.

 

[Lindaanne60]

So what do I do know? I did a 50% water change today after stirring the bed. I run ceramic stones in both canisters, two filter pads in each, a carbon pad and also have the ceramic beads.

Once my levels are all back to normal, how long do I wait to reintroduce my fish?

Sorry for all the questions.

I wouldn’t be stirring the sand. Some pretty bad gasses get trapped In There that are not good for fish. Emptying a tank once and cleaning out the sand it smelled like a cesspool.

 

[MERKEY]

I am so confused. I had my tank at 1.02 and was told to raise it to 1.025-1.027. Should I lower it back down to 1.021? My fish hospital is at 1.022...I can lower that too. HELP, please! Thanks for all the other info - I will take that into account. Thanks!

This is what's tough about the hobby....so many people trying to help and it can get overwhelming and confusing.

I'd like to add something but I believe at this point you have enough info and people trying and I wouldn't want to confuse you more.

I will confirm that stability is key!

 

[Robb1414]

This is what's tough about the hobby....so many people trying to help and it can get overwhelming and confusing.

I'd like to add something but I believe at this point you have enough info and people trying and I wouldn't want to confuse you more.

I will confirm that stability is key!

I would happily take anymore advice...I am moving very, very slowly before putting any fish back in my DT!

 

[homer1475]

lets start with an easy to answer question.....

Do you have any coral, or plan on adding any?

 

[Robb1414]

lets start with an easy to answer question.....

Do you have any coral, or plan on adding any?

No. This will always be a fish with live rock tank.

 

[homer1475]

Then your salinity is fine at 1.022. No need to bring the salinity up.

 

[homer1475]

The only time you would want the normal reef parameter of 1.026 is when corals are introduced.

 

[Jimmyneptune]

I think your issue was stirring the sand bed. It sounds like you were running your tank at high nitrates which isn’t necessarily bad until you do something that spikes them even more. You’re stirring the sand bed could have killed some inverts or one of your fish and then it’s like rolling death through the Fishtank. You can have a salinity of 1.022 up to 1.027 whatever you feel comfortable with if it’s a fish only Tank. I would look for a sweet spot of 1.024 not too difficult for your inverts or your fish. I would use the time with your fish out of the tank to thoroughly clean your Sand bed. I ran a mostly fish only tank for a long time and when I closed down the tank and cleaned out the sand bed you could smell the death in it.
If I were you I would get a sump and use filter socks. External overflow for your tank will work if you don’t have drilled tank then you will need a standard aquarium 10 or 20 gallons or a sump and a return pump. Doing that you could also add a refugium or protein skimmer if you want. You could buy most of that equipment used if money is a factor. The only thing I would not skimp on is the overflow box because it’s a pain if you lose siphon. I’m not sure if it’s possible but try to avoid the ones that require the aqua lifter pumps because they burn out regularly in my experience.

 

[laverda]

With a reading like that it's stating that your tank water is basically brackish water. The tank salinity should be raised to 1.026 sg or 35 ppt. Calibrate your meter or refractometer and retest. If you get the same result, you will need to start increasing the salinity slowly to 1.026 over a 6-12 hour period. It'll take close to 4 pounds of salt to get it up to 1.026 (35) if the current reading is accurate. To raise it mix up some super concentrated salt water in a ratio of 1 pound of salt to at lease 1 gallon of water and slowly add it in small doses of 1/2 - 3/4 gal at a time waiting at least 30-60 min for it to circulate before testing the salinity. Wait at least 1-2 hours before each dose to keep from shocking the rest of the livestock. Dose the tank with Sechem Prime to detoxify any remaining ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Once the tank is up to the correct salinity start prepping for a large water change of at least 50%.

There is no need to raise the salinity in in a fish only system. inverts will do fine at his existing levels.

 

[laverda]

I’ve had nitrates around 70 to 80 ppm in a freshwater tank several years ago and it took out a lot of fish.

Saltwater fish handle Nitrates at 120 or higher fine. There have been test saying nitrates are not toxic to saltwater fish at even higher levels. In fresh water a lot of time when nitrates are high, nitrites are also which are much more toxic to fish.

 

[laverda]

I think your issue was stirring the sand bed. It sounds like you were running your tank at high nitrates which isn’t necessarily bad until you do something that spikes them even more. You’re stirring the sand bed could have killed some inverts or one of your fish and then it’s like rolling death through the Fishtank. You can have a salinity of 1.022 up to 1.027 whatever you feel comfortable with if it’s a fish only Tank. I would look for a sweet spot of 1.024 not too difficult for your inverts or your fish. I would use the time with your fish out of the tank to thoroughly clean your Sand bed. I ran a mostly fish only tank for a long time and when I closed down the tank and cleaned out the sand bed you could smell the death in it.
If I were you I would get a sump and use filter socks. External overflow for your tank will work if you don’t have drilled tank then you will need a standard aquarium 10 or 20 gallons or a sump and a return pump. Doing that you could also add a refugium or protein skimmer if you want. You could buy most of that equipment used if money is a factor. The only thing I would not skimp on is the overflow box because it’s a pain if you lose siphon. I’m not sure if it’s possible but try to avoid the ones that require the aqua lifter pumps because they burn out regularly in my experience.

What you smell(rotten egg smell) is not death, but sulfur gas created in the sand bed by the break down of Nitrate. it is just part of the nitrogen cycle and is always present. It is toxic in large amounts. Stirring the sand bed will release some of this. If all the sand bed was disrupted by stirring this may have caused the problem.

 

[laverda]

Then your salinity is fine at 1.022. No need to bring the salinity up.

Like Homer said there is no benefit in raising the salinity in a fish only system. Most fish only systems run at lower salinity as there are several benefits for the fish.
1 Fish spend energy removing salt from their bodies. Lower salinity means they can use the extra energy fighting diseases and parasites.
2 many parasites do not do well in lower salinity.
For these reasons most LFS keep their fish systems at 1.019 typically. Every wholesaler I know of does as well. Fish can adjust to fairly rapid decreases in salinity but any increase should be done slowly.

 

[Rmckoy]

Knowing the death of cb is the most probable cause .

A spike in ammonia which was the silent killer .

Nitrates are the end result of ammonia and nitrite .
I’d be more worried that your system isn’t strong enough to process one fish dying ..
what would Happen if someone where to accidentally over feed , or forget to clean one of the canister filters .

If ammonia was 0 and we can verify a nitrogen cycle has successfully completed through all stages .
It should be strong enough to have processed the death of the 3 fish by now .
Test , confirm 0 nitrites and ammonia .
And some detectable nitrates.

I’d slowly add one fish at a time .....

 

[Flippers4pups]

I would happily take anymore advice...I am moving very, very slowly before putting any fish back in my DT!

What size tank?

Sorry this happened to you.

What Nitrate kit do you use? Is it within expiration date?

Depending on the size of tank , water volume and how many fish are in the system, a fish death alone may not cause enough ammonia to be released into the water column, even to the point of the tissue completely dissolving, to harm other fish. I've had fish disappear completely in a reef and no I'll effects happened to the other fish.

With that said, I suspect a nutrient or a hydrogen gas release from the canister filters may have caused this, especially if the canister hadn't be cleaned in a while. This is completely hypothetical.

N03 In saltwater isn't deadly until around 150 ppm. Freshwater, much, much lower.

 

[laverda]

Just a follow up on my last post. It's been a few days and I have not lost anymore fish! They are all happy in the ten gallon hospital tank - a bit tight, but they are good. Keeping ammonia in check!

As far as my DT, I did a 50% water changed, scrubbed the crap out of the glass, and increased my salinity to 1.027. I will let it sit for two days and then completely clean my two Eheim canisters and replace all media (I did this yesterday too.
I am going to let it sit without adding any of my livestock back for a full week. My clean up crew seems to be fine - haven't noticed anything unusual with them. I will of course check all parameters before adding anything back to the tank.

I am also VERY slowly increasing salinity in my hospital tank to get it to 1.027.

Does that sound about right?!?

One fish dying in a 75 gallon tank should not be a big deal in a tank this size especially if the body was removed. If it was the cause there is not enough biological filtration.