Cryptocaryon irritans Vaccine?

[SteveMM62Reef]

Looks like some promising research has been done on a Vaccine for Saltwater Ich, involving Grouper. Do a Search on “Cryptocaryon irritans Vaccine.” If this works on all Saltwater Fish, would be a great achievement for the hobby and all Aquaculture.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks like some promising research has been done on a Vaccine for Saltwater Ich, involving Grouper. Do a Search on “Cryptocaryon irritans Vaccine.” If this works on all Saltwater Fish, would be a great achievement for the hobby and all Aquaculture.

Not sure how well this would work long term in captivity as there are ever changing immune system issues based on water quality, diet and introduction of other fish with disease

 

[Doctorgori]

interesting
almost thought it was click bait
… a quick Google search didn’t yield anything that told me how the vaccine is delivered…
I’ll keep looking

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I did a quick scan of the article. I've never had immunology classes, so I wasn't able to decipher those sections.

The results were difficult to tease out though. They concluded that the vaccine had a "significant" affect. However, I could not find the actual level of protection. I saw two sections that seemed to show control versus treated samples, and the benefit was only about a 50% reduction in infection rate.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Don’t local fish stores purposely create a hypo salinity environment for new arrivals to stifle parasitic health. Non of us have seen ich present in lfs, right? Then unsuspecting reef hobbyists take their unnoticeably infected fish home. Introduces it to their display tank of 1.026 reviving the parasite and within a few days discover they have ich. My personal guess is only half of lfs quarantine their fish???

 

[Jekyl]

Don’t local fish stores purposely create a hypo salinity environment for new arrivals to stifle parasitic health. Non of us have seen ich present in lfs, right? Then unsuspecting reef hobbyists take their unnoticeably infected fish home. Introduces it to their display tank of 1.026 reviving the parasite and within a few days discover they have ich. My personal guess is only half of lfs quarantine their fish???

Half is being very generous. I'd say maybe 5% might have a sufficient quarantine from the stories I've heard. Even then I think my number is high

 

[Spare time]

Don’t local fish stores purposely create a hypo salinity environment for new arrivals to stifle parasitic health. Non of us have seen ich present in lfs, right? Then unsuspecting reef hobbyists take their unnoticeably infected fish home. Introduces it to their display tank of 1.026 reviving the parasite and within a few days discover they have ich. My personal guess is only half of lfs quarantine their fish???

I think they may use slightly lower salinities to 1. Save money and 2. To match the salinity of the shipment arrivals which come in at a lower salinity.

 

[Doctorgori]

Actually irks me when I receive Marine fish in what is basically “brackish” water … I actually unbagged water that was 1.020

 

[Glenner’sreef]

I think they may use slightly lower salinities to 1. Save money and 2. To match the salinity of the shipment arrivals which come in at a lower salinity.

And to my point let’s add a number 3. to your list: 3. So the store doesn’t have to deal with the ich parasite like consumers do with the nsw salinity levels.

 

[Spare time]

And to my point let’s add a number 3. to your list: 3. So the store doesn’t have to deal with the ich parasite like consumers do with the nsw salinity levels.

For hypo to do anything to ich, you need true hypo. I don't think any store runs their tanks like that as it would be disasterous for fish leaving the store for tanks back at people's places.

 

[exnisstech]

Actually irks me when I receive Marine fish in what is basically “brackish” water … I actually unbagged water that was 1.020

Bought a fish not too long ago from a tank that was marked 1.020. I'd have been happy with that. Water was 1.015 when I tested before acclimating. I no longer buy fish from any tank that doesn't also house inverts and coral.

Don’t local fish stores purposely create a hypo salinity environment for new arrivals to stifle parasitic health. Non of us have seen ich present in lfs, right? Then unsuspecting reef hobbyists take their unnoticeably infected fish home. Introduces it to their display tank of 1.026 reviving the parasite and within a few days discover they have ich. My personal guess is only half of lfs quarantine their fish???

IME hypo hides velvet also. A few years back I bought an angel from a low salinity tank, 1.016. Within days of being added to 1.025 fish started dropping. The fish had no signs in the store tank at low salinity.

 

[dank.reefer]

Don’t local fish stores purposely create a hypo salinity environment for new arrivals to stifle parasitic health. Non of us have seen ich present in lfs, right? Then unsuspecting reef hobbyists take their unnoticeably infected fish home. Introduces it to their display tank of 1.026 reviving the parasite and within a few days discover they have ich. My personal guess is only half of lfs quarantine their fish???

Half is being very generous. I'd say maybe 5% might have a sufficient quarantine from the stories I've heard. Even then I think my number is high

Turn 'n burn baby. Get the fish sold before their infections kill them. Gone are the days of LFS treating fish. If the LFS won't show you their QT system they are not doing it. I have seen some LFS who claim to treat with metro and prazi for a few hours or days prior to sale but from what I have seen nothing works as well as TTM, Copper, and 30 day observation. Some fish can't take the copper treatment so for them its TTM, metro, prazi, and observe. The problem with proper QT is that it kills some fish(most are already sick). Many shop owners are unwilling to accept that loss and use the disclaimer that you should be the one to carry that burden and it is your negligence if their fish infects your tank.

I am lucky to have a local reefer who sources the fish and does the QT observation himself he has a large QT system that he is eager to show off when you buy from him. If your LFS doesn't have a dedicated QT system they probably aren't really doing it, it is too much of a pain to do on a large(retail) scale without a dedicated system. Even if they medicate there aren't really any miracle medications that I have heard of that work in a single treatment.

 

[twentyleagues]

Hypo salinity is actually a feasible solution for some parasitic infections if given enough time as is copper. The places that bring fish in and sell them to our lfs may do both or one depending on the species of fish and then your lfs may continue the process. Does the fish stay in these treatments long enough before they are sold is the question. 1.020 is not hypo so that sounds like saving money on salt cost to me. One lfs has a bank of tanks that is consistently held at therapeutic levels of copper. They have signs and usually tell people that these fish are in copper please understand what that means for your tanks safety. Another runs both on different banks and again they have signs and usually tell people on how to appropriately handle the situation. So I dont think its always about saving money, keeping copper levels up isnt the cheapest especially in a couple hundred gallons of water. Now does this constitute a proper qt? I dont think so as they bring new fish into the system at least once a week and most fish are only there for a few days to a couple weeks at most. But at least they are trying to continue the process that was started in the whole sale side and its up to you to finish the process.

There is very little money made on fish sales in general. When I worked at one of the lfs they did have a qt room and a vet on staff to oversee the process. Not all fish went to the qt though, and of course the cost of fish that did was quite a bit higher than the same at other lfs in the area. I dont believe they do this anymore at all, just the bank of copper and hypo. That is mostly because "we" as consumers dont appreciate paying for the service and feel "we" are being swindled. I see a lot of negative "feelings" toward lfs, y'all must have some bad lfs in your area. If you have a good one spend money with them because when they are gone I know I'll miss mine.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Actually irks me when I receive Marine fish in what is basically “brackish” water … I actually unbagged water that was 1.020

Agreed, don’t get me wrong. I’m a big lfs fan! But an Ich vaccine? Two thumbs up.

 

[dank.reefer]

The marine aquatics trade in Southern California is very competitive and fish/corals don't stay in the LFS for long. Most of the shops are very well intentioned but that doesn't detract from the fact that many customers would rather roll the dice than pay a premium for properly medicated and QT'd fish.

I harbor no ill will towards my LFS but I do realize that it is a business and if the ends don't meet the shop will no longer exist. Most are very freindly and knowledgable and a value to the trade but the industry has changed. In Socal the rent and labor costs are much higher than in much of the country and running a LFS is usually on a shoestring budget. For a 1500-2000sq ft shop in Socal you are looking at 4-6k a month vs flint michigan were the same shop would likely go for 1k-2k a month or less. Then there is the labor with minimum wage being $16.50hr many shop owners are strapped. Also from what I have seen the price of corals and fish around the country are double the cost of what they are here in Socal. Then there is the basic inability to compete with the online dry goods sales so the only option is to move as much livestock as possible, as quickly as possible. In general LFS are well meaning but the high cost of doing business here can be taxing and cause some shortcuts to become necessity.

Unfortunately this leaves the end consumer responsible for the final "conditioning" of the livestock.

 

[dank.reefer]

Agreed, don’t get me wrong. I’m a big lfs fan! But an Ich vaccine? Two thumbs up.

Hope it works better than the COVID Vax........LOL. Will you have to give boosters as well? Seems like a pipe dream. It is probably better to stick with a proper QT to keep the infections out of the system in the first place. Even if we could vaccinate against ich then we would still need to QT/treat for velvet, flukes, uronema and other infections of which the treatment will killl ich as well. So at least at the hobby level I don't see it changing things all that much. Cool I vaccinated my fish from ICH. Plop him in the display. Oh crud he gave all of my other fish velvet.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Hope it works better than the COVID Vax........LOL. Will you have to give boosters as well? Seems like a pipe dream. It is probably better to stick with a proper QT to keep the infections out of the system in the first place. Even if we could vaccinate against ich then we would still need to QT/treat for velvet, flukes, uronema and other infections of which the treatment will killl ich as well. So at least at the hobby level I don't see it changing things all that much. Cool I vaccinated my fish from ICH. Plop him in the display. Oh crud he gave all of my other fish velvet.

Ich boosters!!! Awesome!