Cupramine treatment suggestions/tips

ReeferBen · Mar 2, 2014

So it had been years since I added a new fish. I set up a new tank and added several new fish in the last month or so. I did the dumb thing and did not QT. So what do you know I have ich, who would have guessed...

Anyhow I want to do the right thing here and make this as low stress for my fish as possible and also eliminate the ich. I have not really bought coral since setting up my new system , and still have the old tank so my plan was this.

Set the old tank up in my basement, move one of my two lights to the basement for the coral.

Move my old rock with coral back to the old tank, and move all inverts (I have crabs, shrimp, anemones, clams) to old tank.

Add some addidtional dry LR (I have cleaned this rock with RO/DI soaks after a muraitic acid treatment) I had lots of dry LR from old systems and didnt need it all. I believe adding a few pieces will help the few fish that live in the rock I have to take out. Most of the fish live in LR that has no coral on it and will stay in the tank as it is untouched.

Remove the carbon and GFO, keep skimmer on.

Treat tank with all fish and base LR in it (wrasse, 2 clowns, 2 bangai cardinals, 2 basslets, 2 wanatabei angels, kole tang) no inverts or corals.

How long should I use the cupramine for? How long should I wait after my test shows 0 copper to add the coral back in? Any other suggestions on how I can make this go smooth?

Marshall O · Mar 2, 2014

Ideally, you want to hold the level at 0.5PPM for 4 weeks. 0.4 should work as well, just don't go lower. Either way, do 4 weeks vs. the two weeks the directions indicate. I actually wouldn't recommend keeping live rock (or sand for that matter) in the tank. It will absorb the copper (which will make it mean you are adding a lot more Cupramine than you need to) and will make it more difficult to maintain the correct dosage. You are better off with PVC, or even the cheesy freshwater decorations.

As far as removing the copper, run Cuprisorb (carbon can work too) until it reads 0. Once it reads 0, you should be all set. If you have any corals that grow like weeds, I would do a test with one of them. Keep in mind you need to keep the live rock and coral you moved fishless for 10-12 weeks. This should line up with the weeks it takes to get the copper up to the correct dosage, hold it for 4 weeks, get it back to 0, and then monitor the fish for another 4 weeks.

Good luck; I do hope it all works out for you!

TJ's Reef · Mar 2, 2014

+1 to Marshall's advice above...... no fun but the only reasonable approach to ridding the DT and Fish of Ich. Been there done that and now about 2 years free of Ich.

Cheers, Todd

revhtree · Mar 3, 2014

Copper Treatment for Marine Ich - REEFEDITION

mfinn · Mar 3, 2014

What's a good brand of test kit you would want to use while using cupramine?

Marshall O · Mar 3, 2014

Although not the easiest to determine the exact level, I use Seachem's kit.

saltyhog · Mar 3, 2014

I agree with the above. Ditch the base rock in the treatment tank. Bare bottom with PVC fittings for the fish to hide in. If you do keep the base rock in I would never use it in a tank with corals or inverts. I would also check the copper level often if you leave the rock in as it can/will change as it is absorbed by the rock.

I use the Salifert Copper test. Never could get comfortable with the Sea Chem because of the way the reagent is added.

Good luck! You are doing the right thing for your tank and your self!

ReeferBen · Mar 3, 2014

Thanks for all the replies! I appriciate the help. I ordered the cupramine, cuprisorb, and the seachem copper test kit. The store is in PA so I am expecting it by wednesday.

I see most of you say to take the rock out, which I can do but I worry about aggression, additional stress, and losing the majority of my biological filter. Are these not so important to worry about? I thought the point of cupramine vs other copper treatments was the cupramine won't absorb into the rock, is that just marketing?

TJ's Reef · Mar 3, 2014

Ben, looks like your heading in the right direction here and to answer some of questions about a QT its not only to reduce any Copper absorption but to ease maintenance like being able siphon off detritus during frequent WC's. The pic below is of my std. 20g QT at end of procedure for my Anthias. This was past full treatment and removal of Copper. Even placed a handful of Coral frags in there which shows how effective the Copper removal was. The bottom frag rack replaced another PVC grouping similar to the one on right which I sanded all edges smooth and glued together. Also plastic FW aquarium plants that I siliconed marble ballasts to help prevent fish from damaging themselves when startled and bashing into glass. After each use I do a Bleach clean rinse and dry to everything and place the bag of ceramic bio-??? back into my sump of DT to re-grow bacteria for next use.

Cheers, Todd

miyags · Mar 3, 2014

My set-up is almost like the one in revhtree post. You should order a ammonia alert badge from seachem also. Helps let you know when you need to make a water change. keep some water made up for a quick water change. I use a old hot mag filter on mine

Marshall O · Mar 3, 2014

+1 one on the Seachem Ammonia Alert badge. I forgot to mention that. Also, best thing you can do now is to get a sponge filter running in your DT if you don't already. Then you can move that over to the HT to instantly provide a source of bacteria.

saltyhog · Mar 3, 2014

Most hospital tanks are not display tanks and use a HOB filter stuffed with ceramic media for bacterial filtration. You don't have that option and will have to do frequent water changes and add the appropriate amount of copper back. If you havea GFO or Carbon reactor you could take the media out and fill it with ceramic media and something like the sponge Marshall suggested. Maybe a small amount of live rock rubble if you have any in your sump?

monkiboy · Mar 3, 2014

i didn't see it mentioned but even when not dealing with scaleless or sensitive species, it is a good idea to use cupramine at lower dose and ramp up. you can start cupramine at a lower therapeutic level of .25mg/L rather than the full dose (.5mg/L) because it is still effective against most of the issues we as reefers are concerned about and what you described to be worried about in this thread - cryptocaryon.

"ACTION: Cupramine eradicates Oodinium and Ich at 0.1–0.2mg/L, Cryptocaryon at 0.25–0.35 mg/L, Trematodes and other parasites at 0.4–0.5 mg/L. With a 10–14 day exposure at 0.4 mg/L most infestations will be eradicated and secondary bacterial and fungal infections will be controlled."

also, you always want to use the test kit from the manufacturer that produces the treatment you are using. using a salifert test kit on a cupramine (seachem) treatment protocol is never advised. i'm glad to see you picked up the matching test kit for the treatment you plan to use. keep us updated and good luck to you!

monkiboy · Mar 3, 2014

also, be sure not to use the ammonia badge alert as your first indicator of ammonia. they do fail and should really only be used as a back up or final warning scenario. prior to treatment you can use any OTS ammonia test kit. once you begin cupramine treatment you will need to rely on frequent water changes and a sense of how things are going to figure out when they need to be done. you'll find the ebb and flow for your tank, how much detritus settles, how much you feed, the fish's normal behavior, breathing, symptoms, etc and get into an intuitive rhythm of water changes, no worries. do not wait for the ammonia alert badge to warn you of ammonia to do them.

ReeferBen · Apr 1, 2014

Thanks for the help, went through the full treatment and ich seems to be history. I do have one fish, a purple reef basslet, that a week or so ago was showing white flaky looking skin. He is still alive and spends most of his time hiding.

Do you think this is bacterial? It's mostly all over his body. What should I treat with? I am removing the copper from the tank starting today.