Cupramine vs copper safe

[ecam]

hello all.

I was already to go with copper treatment for hippo. But now I'm questioning which one to use. Please help.

I read chelated copper is better and can be mixed with products like amquel. While cupramine cannot. But cupramine is safer on fish but my not always work.

Test kits

I read the seachem test is suspect and tricky to use and I don't trust api for such a lethal drug. Please help. Plan on qt'ing today.

(Figured I create a post for future use )

 

[jsker]

@Humblefish @melypr1985 this is a job for the [HASHTAG]#reefsquad[/HASHTAG] fish healers

 

[miyags]

I use cupramine. I did try coppersafe back in the mid 80's but I didn't have a copper test kit for it. I think I overdosed and killed the fish I was trying to cure.

 

[4FordFamily]

Neither should be used with amquel or prime. Coppersafe is more effective, more difficult to remove (although still not hard), safer for wrasse IME, and easier not to make a dosage mistake as the therapeutic range is higher so it's less likely to swing below this range which may be part of why it's more effective in my experience. I used double the cupramine recommended dose and it still didn't kill my strain. In fairness, I may have cross contaminated but I would be surprised if that was what happened. I struggled with ich every time I used cupramine, I used coppersafe again and both tanks were cleared out no problem of ich and everyone survived. I have out hundreds of fish through both, but more so with cupramine. I would never go back to cupramine.

Now the amquel and prime point - it is alleged that you CAN use them with coppersafe but it's risky and we don't have enough data to know for certain. I will say that when I used prime or amquel and coppersafe in the past I had 5x the fish deaths. No exaggeration. May be more actually.

 

[Humblefish]

I am rapidly losing faith in Cupramine, which is ionic copper. It appears "old school" chelated copper (exs. Coppersafe, Copper Power) is actually safer, more effective and has a wider therapeutic range (1.5 - 2.0 ppm) to work with. You also need a total copper test kit (such as API's) to measure chelated copper. And I WOULD NOT use an ammonia reducer with any copper product.

@melypr1985 has been using Coppersafe on many different fish at the LFS where she works, she her input would be valuable here.

 

[robby2782]

Sorry to hijack, but would this be better to use than cupramine?

 

[ecam]

For a hippo tang. As per humblefish. Hippo and most wrasses will not survive

 

[Humblefish]

@robby2782 CP is superior to all copper treatments IF it is pharmaceutical grade 99% pure. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet (or an MD) to write you a prescription which can then be filled by a compounding pharmacy.

As @ecam pointed out there are a few species which typically do not fare well in CP: Hippo Tang, Sixline Wrasse and Melanurus Wrasse all come to mind. However, I've successfully tested it on dozens of flasher & fairy wrasses without issue.

 

[ecam]

Sorry humblefish. Didn't mean to misquote you there on the wrasse. I've order the chelated copper and test kit and will isolate the hippo in copper while the rest go through cp.

they are so healthy right now and eating right from live aquaria Really concerned about medicating. But I don't want to go through another large scale loss like I did a few years ago

 

[melypr1985]

I'll say that I have indeed been using coppersafe in the store and have had good luck with it. Dwarf angels, puffers, wrasses, tangs of all kinds... all have done well in that system. We also dont have many issues with disease since I dose Prazipro every monday in the same system. I've only had one bacterial bloom in the process.

 

[Humblefish]

I'll say that I have indeed been using coppersafe in the store and have had good luck with it. Dwarf angels, puffers, wrasses, tangs of all kinds... all have done well in that system. We also dont have many issues with disease since I dose Prazipro every monday in the same system. I've only had one bacterial bloom in the process.

How many puffers have you treated thus far with Coppersafe? It would be good to know if chelated copper was a viable option for them.

 

[4FordFamily]

How many puffers have you treated thus far with Coppersafe? It would be good to know if chelated copper was a viable option for them.

I've used coppersafe on a dogface and porcupine in the past successfully. I've noticed that what happens to porcupines under copper is cloudy eyes that leads to death - I suspect the true culprit though was ammonia (my qt's were uncycled) and me using amquel or prime in conjunction with. I had more trouble with them in cupramine over the years.

 

[robby2782]

@robby2782 CP is superior to all copper treatments IF it is pharmaceutical grade 99% pure. I cannot stress the importance of this enough. Do not buy it from some guy on eBay or even an online vendor. The only way to be sure you are getting 99% pure CP is to get your vet (or an MD) to write you a prescription which can then be filled by a compounding pharmacy.

As @ecam pointed out there are a few species which typically do not fare well in CP: Hippo Tang, Sixline Wrasse and Melanurus Wrasse all come to mind. However, I've successfully tested it on dozens of flasher & fairy wrasses without issue.

See attached:

 

[Humblefish]

@robby2782 Two issues I see with that CP:

1. CP only has a 3 year shelf life; that Certificate of Analysis appears to show a 5 year 1 month expiration date.
2. CP cannot be 100% pure. It has to also contain a binder (0.5-1%); making it 99.5-99% pure.

May I ask where you got this CP from?

 

[robby2782]

See attached. You'll laugh at his initial response. Lol

I didn't even have to tell him who warned me about it. Haha

This is where it is stated to have come from.

 

[robby2782]

I ordered some coppersafe off Amazon as a precaution. My fish don't display any deceases, but I wanted to use the least stressful preventative to mitigate risk. I've been using cupramine with minimal loss, but I want to change to something better.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I've been using cupramine on my PBT with good results. It is very effective at eliminating both Ich and velvet. Just my experience, however.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

And, full disclosure, I have no experience using cupramine with wrasses or other, more sensitive fish.

 

[Humblefish]

Ahh the ebay seller , yeah he contacted me awhile back on RC. I don't think he's a fan of mine.

Fishman Chemical sources their CP from China, so that explains the odd Certificate of Analysis.

 

[robby2782]

Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback.

You recommend using coppersafe over cupramine? Can prazipro be used in conjunction with it?