Cuprazin vs Cupramine

[Gweeds1980]

As per my intro post my QT cracked the other day so I'm getting a replacement tank this week. I've also run out of cupramine which I dose to any new arrival (had ich once... never again!).

Looking online, cuprazin claims to also treat ich effectively and is much cheaper (again, look at my intro post!)


Does anyone have any experience / knowledge of the two and can tell me what the difference is or which is best?

Thanks.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Also... whilst I think of it, my last QT was only set up when I had a new arrival... which tbh was a bit of a pita when you also have 3 kids under 10 to entertain and a dog to walk and both me and the Mrs work full time... anyhoo, this time around I was going to set it up permanently. I figured by doing so I could make it a bit more homely... LR, sand bed, macro algae etc. But obviously it won't be inhabited all the time, so keeping the bacteria going might be a struggle. So I have 3 questions...

1. Is there an animal I could keep in the QT full time but pop into the DT sump when I need the QT for treatment? Obviously this animal would need to not be a carrier for any fish diseases.

2. On the assumption that the answer to 1. is no... Is there a fish I could permanently keep in the QT which is resilient enough to put up with regular copper doses and won't take over the tank as it's own and beat the crap out of any new addition or sick fish?

3. Is this all a bit daft and should I just tell the kids to bugger off for a bit each time I need the QT?

Cheers.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Molly was suggested by a friend... thoughts?

 

[Gweeds1980]

Worth mentioning... I use a friend for QTing inverts so cross contamination from a permanent fish resident won't be an issue.

 

[melypr1985]

i have no experience with cuprazin, and I dont' have enough time this morning to do a more in-depth search on it.

I wouldn't set up a permanent QT with live rock and sand. Those will absorb copper making it unstable and leach it back out later. I also wouldn't keep a fish in a QT through several batches of fish and rounds of copper and other medications. You'll be exposing that fish to many, many different parasites and bacterium not to mention all the meds over and over. You can simply ghost feed the tank if you wish to keep the bacteria in the filter fed. You'll also probably have to break down the QT occasionally to sterilize after a fish dies from a particularly nasty infection or even for velvet (hopefully that doesn't happen). Macro algae wouldn't survive in a QT with all the medications present.

 

[Humblefish]

I can't find out any useful info about Cuprazin; I assume it is a copper based product mostly used in the UK: http://www.waterlife.co.uk/marine/disease-treatments-2014-02-05/cuprazin-detail#.WP9auTtGJsY

I'm more familiar with Cupramine, and can tell you it's therapeutic range (0.35 - 0.5mg/L), and also which Cu test kits to use with it: Seachem or Salifert.

 

[Humblefish]

Apparently I had done a little research on Cuprazin before, but had forgotten. See below:

I can't find a MSDS, so I'm relying upon what I've read in a couple of threads about Cuprazin. Ingredients are Copper sulfate, Formaldehyde and Malachite green. The only one of those three that is useful for treating marine ich is Copper sulfate, and that is comparable to what is in chelated copper (i.e. Coppersafe here in the states.) Therefore, the therapeutic range would be 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm for 30 days, and you would need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Cuprazin.

I strongly advise against leaving a fish in formaldehyde and malachite green (both are carcinogens) for 30 days; the amount of time required to treat ich & velvet in QT.

 

[Gweeds1980]

Brilliant, thank you.

 

[KyleC]

I know this is an old thread, but I've been given a bottle of cuprazin and I have a chromis that needs treated (no symptoms but I know my DT has ich). 20g QT tank setup and cycled using seeded sponge from DT. Plan was to treat him in the QT and keep him in it until DT has gone through the 76 day fallow period.

I'm not sure I understand the advice above, is the treatment not effective because 30 days is needed, but doing so would be too detrimental because of the ingredients? See pic for instructions on bottle.

If it's not suitable, why even produce it? Waiting on coppersafe so can hold out if needs be but would like to understand why cuprazin can't be used. Any help appreciated.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I think that was specific to formalin for 30 days - copper is safe for the duration of treatment.
Assuming this product is similar to cupramine, I would treat at 0.5 mg/l for 30 days.

 

[KyleC]

Ah yes I see now. Hence why it instructs a 7 day course... I'm just going to wait for the coppersafe. Any meds with less than 30 days treatment period makes me dubious of It's efficacy. Makes you wonder why they sell them. Thanks for the input.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ah yes I see now. Hence why it instructs a 7 day course... I'm just going to wait for the coppersafe. Any meds with less than 30 days treatment period makes me dubious of It's efficacy. Makes you wonder why they sell them. Thanks for the input.

The label gave me a good chuckle; "Treats white spot and fungus" and then gives two examples, "Oodinium and Benedenia" - neither of which is a fungus, or produces white spots!

This product is pretty scary - it mixes a medication that requires a test kit (copper) with one that has been shown not to work in seawater (malachite green/formalin).

Also - malachite green is a additive toxin, you risk it building up in the fish with multiple doses.

Jay

 

[KyleC]

Lol just goes to show how careful you need to be when buying and using medications! I do have an API copper test kit but not going to take any chances... so I'll hold out for the coppersafe.

Thanks for your input Jay!