Curing rock for months, now with free phosphate

[hmmmmm]

First time starting with dry rock, so this might be a little basic. But I've gathered some rock from different tanks and nuked it using bleach. Then I rinsed it multiple times and soaked it untill the smell was gone. But everything in a container and added flow and heat. Dosed bacteria every few days and a piece of shrimp to get things started. Had a sensor on there to monitor the ammonia cycle.

It has now been about 4 months. Dosed some bacteria and ghost fed in the meantime. Now I wanted to use some of the rubble for a nano tank so measured the levels using Hanna testers. Nitrate and ammonia are just above zero, but phosphate is off the scale. Reading + 0.9 on the Hanna URL checker, so going above the max. I figured everything was ok after the cycle so didn't do any test for the last couple of months..

So now I'm wondering what to do.. I'm thinking 100% water change and GFO in a reactor, and test again in a couple of days. I would hate to nuke it again..
Any thoughts?

 

[Idoc]

I would just do a 100% water change and then let it sit a week in new water and re-test for phosphates. At this point, you kind of need to know whether it's still leaching out or not.

 

[hmmmmm]

I would just do a 100% water change and then let it sit a week in new water and re-test for phosphates. At this point, you kind of need to know whether it's still leaching out or not.

Alrighty, thanks for the quick reply. Did not think I was spending my Sunday like this but I got everything transferred to the soon to be sump in the miniature basement. Made some Plexiglas covers to keep the moisture down and added a tunze ato and an old schego controller with a titanium heater. So at least it's out of the way for now, and pretty sure 100% of the water was changed ;Happy

 

[Devaji]

let us know how it goes

 

[Saltyreef]

Yea ive been neglecting changing the water on my rock culture and its been 4 months.

Im sure the nutrients are through the roof since i feed live phyto to it too.

100% water change never hurt nobody lol.

 

[hmmmmm]

I would just do a 100% water change and then let it sit a week in new water and re-test for phosphates. At this point, you kind of need to know whether it's still leaching out or not.

let us know how it goes

Well.. I got qurious so did another test with the Hanna ulr.

So my levels got almost to the max of the Hanna within 3 days, even with a 100% water change. Don't really understand how my other levels are near zero, or were this is coming from. This rock has been in multiple bleach baths for over 10 days..

So what next, I have some time before I need it so maybe out on a skimmer and start dosing Phosphate RX, maybe GFO reactor?

 

[ScubaFish802]

This might be a dumb question, but did you ever take the shrimp back out? is it possible there are still remains somewhere that are not decomposed completely

 

[terraincognita]

First time starting with dry rock, so this might be a little basic. But I've gathered some rock from different tanks and nuked it using bleach. Then I rinsed it multiple times and soaked it untill the smell was gone. But everything in a container and added flow and heat. Dosed bacteria every few days and a piece of shrimp to get things started. Had a sensor on there to monitor the ammonia cycle.

It has now been about 4 months. Dosed some bacteria and ghost fed in the meantime. Now I wanted to use some of the rubble for a nano tank so measured the levels using Hanna testers. Nitrate and ammonia are just above zero, but phosphate is off the scale. Reading + 0.9 on the Hanna URL checker, so going above the max. I figured everything was ok after the cycle so didn't do any test for the last couple of months..

So now I'm wondering what to do.. I'm thinking 100% water change and GFO in a reactor, and test again in a couple of days. I would hate to nuke it again..
Any thoughts?

i used to do something similar but instead of bleach i just used freshwater to kill off any salt life for 3 days and then to salt would kill anything else with a rapid salinity change.

i would also get insane phos spikes after and handled it with ChemiPure and WCs and it always crept down

is your Nitrate also super high?

 

[Lucas815]

Hi,

I'm new to reefing, and the whole "curing rocks for months" process is very puzzling to me.

I'm asking by pure curiosity, but what is the objective trying to be achieved by doing this?

When I started my tank in april, I just put my brand new dry rocks in the tank, put the water, started the cycle with Seachem Stability.
Cycle was done in 2 weeks, and 2 weeks after that I put a couple fish in.

Did I miss something?

 

[hmmmmm]

I'm asking by pure curiosity, but what is the objective trying to be achieved by doing this?

Stability, check out the BRS videos on the 4 month cycle. It's not a necessity in any way, but we all know everything good in this hobby comes slow. My main system is far from ready so if you have the time..

 

[hmmmmm]

This might be a dumb question, but did you ever take the shrimp back out? is it possible there are still remains somewhere that are not decomposed completely

Not a dumb question at all because I did not It was just a small piece though, maybe 10x10mm. As far as I could tell it was completely gone after a couple of months. Transferred all the rocks one by one and shook them out, and rinsed in fresh salt water before putting it in the sump.

i used to do something similar but instead of bleach i just used freshwater to kill off any salt life for 3 days and then to salt would kill anything else with a rapid salinity change.

i would also get insane phos spikes after and handled it with ChemiPure and WCs and it always crept down

is your Nitrate also super high?

The bleach should be a bit more aggressive then fresh water. Also didn't for 10 days, and added more bleach after 5. Can't imagine anything surviving that. Nitrate is almost zero.

 

[Devaji]

have you tested your new mixed SW and RODI water maybe something is getting through?

 

[Anubisxii]

Thank you. All the SPS frags on the rock work that's still white because it's new are about 5 days old. It's my first go at SPS so I'm hoping things go well.

 

[terraincognita]

Not a dumb question at all because I did not It was just a small piece though, maybe 10x10mm. As far as I could tell it was completely gone after a couple of months. Transferred all the rocks one by one and shook them out, and rinsed in fresh salt water before putting it in the sump.



The bleach should be a bit more aggressive then fresh water. Also didn't for 10 days, and added more bleach after 5. Can't imagine anything surviving that. Nitrate is almost zero.

yes for sure, I kinda was more implying you probably had more death resulting in higher Phos.

funny now that I think about it I do remember from school that Bleach and Ammonia create a very lethal gas. Oh it’s just chloramines.

Maybe chloramines in the water as well aren’t helping.

Did the rocks ever go through a dry stage?

Not to set you backwards but emptying the tank and letting those rocks sun dry for 4 days and using new fresh saltwater honestly might be your smartest idea right now.

I wonder what type of ammonia is needed and if this ever has any negative impacts on tanks.

 

[Crashnt24]

Run gfo, it will only speed up the leaching and help get it out faster. Plus you'll have a spare reactor to run carbon or whatever in your new tank

 

[ScottB]

Running GFO will speed things up. I would keep changing it out until the water reads a stable .1 on PO4. I would not aim for zero.

You could also dose some Sodium Nitrate to get measurable NO3. In a NO3 deficient system, adding NO3 will reduce PO4.

It is worth repeating: your goal for available PO4 should NOT be zero.

 

[hmmmmm]

have you tested your new mixed SW and RODI water maybe something is getting through?

I'll try that tomorrow, never tested it to be honest. The RODI had new filters a couple of months ago, 7 stages and always reading 0 or 1 TDS. But might be worth a try.

Maybe chloramines in the water as well aren’t helping.

Did the rocks ever go through a dry stage?

Not to set you backwards but emptying the tank and letting those rocks sun dry for 4 days and using new fresh saltwater honestly might be your smartest idea right now.

That would really suck.. just thinking of the salt, heating, effort and time it took makes me itchy ;Walkingdead

Run gfo, it will only speed up the leaching and help get it out faster. Plus you'll have a spare reactor to run carbon or whatever in your new tank

I have a couple of reactors and GFO laying around so that's easy.

Running GFO will speed things up. I would keep changing it out until the water reads a stable .1 on PO4. I would not aim for zero.

You could also dose some Sodium Nitrate to get measurable NO3. In a NO3 deficient system, adding NO3 will reduce PO4.

It is worth repeating: your goal for available PO4 should NOT be zero.

I guess that's next on the list. Easier to do anyways then starting over. That will take months anyway so what's a couple of weeks extra between friends ;Playful

 

[Devaji]

I'll try that tomorrow, never tested it to be honest. The RODI had new filters a couple of months ago, 7 stages and always reading 0 or 1 TDS. But might be worth a try.

test RODI then fresh mixed salt is possible that you could have a bad batch of salt mix? IDK worth ruling that out.

 

[jda]

Get some lanthanum chloride. It is cheaper and easier to use than the GFO. It will work faster too.

The rock is likely bound with MASSIVE amount of phosphate if the water level is that high - aragonite binds phosphate at exponential levels and the more you have in the water, the more the aragonite will bind. You will need many doses of the LC. You can put a skimmer on the tank, or use a filter sock to catch the flocculant from the LC dosing (or both), but it is easy. With just rock in the tank, you can dose very quickly too.

I have a 150 rubber made that I collect used live rock when people get out of the hobby. It is always full of phosphate. The last time that I got a bunch, it was off the scale of a Hannah that I have. I put 5ml of straight LC in there and let it skim for a few days until the water got clear. Still off the charts. Did this two more times and it hit .60. Did this probably 8-10 more times until it got to .05, or so. You have to wait a few days between treatments because it takes some time for the P bound in the rock to unbind back into the water.

Nuking it won't help. The P will stay bound to the aragonite even if you dry it or bleach it. Only having it in water that has a lower P level will reverse the bind.

I might really help to read up on phosphate binding in aragonite, dolomite or calcite - they are are mostly the same. GFO and Aluminum Oxide are the same way... they bind to "equilibrium" with the outside water and they can unbind P if the water level gets lower. This is why you always change your GFO when you change water or else the GFO will release some of it's saturation.

 

[hmmmmm]

Get some lanthanum chloride. It is cheaper and easier to use than the GFO. It will work faster too.
.................

I've tried but nobody over here (Netherlands) seems to sell it in small quantities. Only some webshops but it's around 250 dollars..

From what I understand Phosphate RX is based on LC, so it's probably just that with some water and a bit of mumbo jumbo. But that's available at least in smaller quantities.

I'll try both and report back! If it's not enough I'll see if I can import some LC from the UK or Germany.