Curing Rock *Need Help*

[fernalfer]

Ok i have 100lbs. of Marco Dry Rock that i want to cure but i'm unsure of the proper process. This is what i was going to do and let me know if it is fine.

I bought a 32 gallon Brute NSF (Food Certified) Can. Was going to fill that with RODI water, then mix in salt to around 1.022 salinity, add a powerhead and a heater and throw in my Marco Rock. Was going to do a 50% water change around every week or so.

1. Do i add Dr. Tims Bacteria and ammonia to feed in the Brute to get some beneficial bacteria going prior to going to the main display?

2. How long do the rocks need to stay in the Brute container to be deemed cure?

3. Is my above plan ok?

 

[Bob Escher]

As far as I know yes you need to add Dr Tim's and the ammonia into the can or you can add it all to your tank and then wait and wait and wait and wait. Till you get 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. Then some say watch for diatoms to come and disappear and algae at the same time as the diatoms. Once that is all done then your ready to go. But no you can mix your salt in the barrel but add everything to your tank:
1. Mix ro and salt in barrel till you get correct salinity and temp.
2. Add water to tank ( if you have sand add first to tank)
3. Add rock to tank and aquascaping
4. Add Dr tims and add ammonia read instructions on how much ammonia to add - I believe 1 drop per gallon)
And then wait
Dr Tim has a great article on the his website on how to do this but if you have dry rock it will be awhile.
After 8 weeks I'm still waiting for my nitrates to go down ( of course I'll admit I have not waited and added snail and crabs which died) added Dr Tims and now I have 8lbs of live rock in the tank even though back in Dec I started with 2 lbs of live rock ( this is in a 10 gallon tank which will be my QT tank
So it's a waiting game and if your impatient you'll be waiting even longer

 

[Lonny]

BRS has a good YouTube video on curing rock. I followed the steps in the video and my pukani was good to go in four weeks!

 

[fernalfer]

I'm just so confused on this issue. Everywhere i look someone says something different. Most videos say cure dry rock that was once live. My rock was never live or from the ocean even. So it has no organics yet some say to still cure it. Not sure why it can't just get a good rinse and then thrown right into the tank.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'm just so confused on this issue. Everywhere i look someone says something different. Most videos say cure dry rock that was once live. My rock was never live or from the ocean even. So it has no organics yet some say to still cure it. Not sure why it can't just get a good rinse and then thrown right into the tank.

it can just get thrown in the tank. There are just different techniques. and levels of paranoia.
the answer to question 2 is

As far as I know yes you need to add Dr Tim's and the ammonia into the can or you can add it all to your tank and then wait and wait and wait and wait. Till you get 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. Then some say watch for diatoms to come and disappear and algae at the same time as the diatoms. Once that is all done then your ready to go. But no you can mix your salt in the barrel but add everything to your tank:
1. Mix ro and salt in barrel till you get correct salinity and temp.
2. Add water to tank ( if you have sand add first to tank)
3. Add rock to tank and aquascaping
4. Add Dr tims and add ammonia read instructions on how much ammonia to add - I believe 1 drop per gallon)
And then wait
Dr Tim has a great article on the his website on how to do this but if you have dry rock it will be awhile.
After 8 weeks I'm still waiting for my nitrates to go down ( of course I'll admit I have not waited and added snail and crabs which died) added Dr Tims and now I have 8lbs of live rock in the tank even though back in Dec I started with 2 lbs of live rock ( this is in a 10 gallon tank which will be my QT tank
So it's a waiting game and if your impatient you'll be waiting even longer

 

[Lonny]

Wish I could be more help. I've only dealt with the pukani.

 

[dutch27]

I added some dry/quarried rock last fall to a tank, it came from reefcleaners. It's essentially the same quarried stuff that Marco rock sells. Basically, put it in that bin like you thought and let it sit for awhile. Check ammonia/nitrites/nitrates once a week, top off to keep the salinity reasonably consistent. Using a lid will help this tremendously. If you need an ammonia source, just add a bunch of flake or pellet food to the bin, it'll decompose and create ammonia, which will provide the ammonia to start the cycle. I've had cycles take anywhere from 6 - 8 weeks, my last batch took 6 weeks to fully cycle. I wouldn't recommend water changes, as it just takes free ammonia and nitrites out of the water column, which is what the bacteria are feeding on to multiply. Look up the nitrogen cycle, that's what you're trying to accomplish.

Answers to your 3:

1 - If you can get a small (1"x1" is all it takes) piece of established rock from a local reefer for free, do that. The cycle will happen itself without adding bacteria, if you're patient. I've tried bottled bacteria before in my freshwater days and found them to be snake oil.
2 - Until weekly tests shows ammonia and nitrite have shown up in the water column, and both gone to zero, with the end result being 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, some level of nitrate
3 - Your plan will work. Once the cycle is done, you can add it to an established tank. If it's for a new tank, you can do this process in the tank directly, and just do a few large water changes to get the nitrates and phosphates down before slowly adding your livestock.

 

[jaws789832]

Ok there is a couple of things here. First off there is a difference between curing your rock and cycling your rock. Curing is a process that is used to remove the organics that can come loaded on dead dry rock. Pukani from BRS is an example of this. It is dry when you get it but it is loaded with dead sponges starfish and other critters, that if you cured in you tank you would end up with a boatload of phosphates that would wreak havoc on your tank. If the rock is loaded with organics I would even recommend you do an acid wash before you cure to remove as much as you can. To cure you actually monitor phoshates until they read zero before putting into your tank. Now you can cure and cycle at the same time. Because of the organics you will start a cycle anyways and long as you keep the parameters in the water up. The smell as rock is curing will be awful, this is because basically all those organics are rotting and that's the stuff you don't want in your tank.
You can also cure the rock in your tank. As long as there is no life in the tank, ie a new setup. It will be fine but you will just have to do a full water change before you actually start the tank. On a large tank that isn't really economical that's why most people do it in a trash can to cut down on salt water costs due to the amount you will change the water.
Now if you are sure there are no organics on your rock, then you really don't need to cure it you just want to cycle it and that is completely fine to do in tank. You can cycle by setting up the tank, setting up your rockwork, fill it with water, and add some kind of ammonia producer whether it by a dead raw shrimp, straight ammonia or a reef starter type program. the idea here is to get the beneficial bacteria going, that feeds on ammonia (from rotting things, like fish poop and fish food, or a dead shrimp), up to a point that you will no longer have ammonia when you add livestock.
A lot of people will cure all dead live rock, just because they are unsure of its contents so better safe then sorry. Curring it you are really out nothing other than a few bags of salt, while if you don't cure it and it is loaded with phoshates you have a big algae problem later in the tanks life.
Hope this clears some things up.

 

[fernalfer]

Ok there is a couple of things here. First off there is a difference between curing your rock and cycling your rock. Curing is a process that is used to remove the organics that can come loaded on dead dry rock. Pukani from BRS is an example of this. It is dry when you get it but it is loaded with dead sponges starfish and other critters, that if you cured in you tank you would end up with a boatload of phosphates that would wreak havoc on your tank. If the rock is loaded with organics I would even recommend you do an acid wash before you cure to remove as much as you can. To cure you actually monitor phoshates until they read zero before putting into your tank. Now you can cure and cycle at the same time. Because of the organics you will start a cycle anyways and long as you keep the parameters in the water up. The smell as rock is curing will be awful, this is because basically all those organics are rotting and that's the stuff you don't want in your tank.
You can also cure the rock in your tank. As long as there is no life in the tank, ie a new setup. It will be fine but you will just have to do a full water change before you actually start the tank. On a large tank that isn't really economical that's why most people do it in a trash can to cut down on salt water costs due to the amount you will change the water.
Now if you are sure there are no organics on your rock, then you really don't need to cure it you just want to cycle it and that is completely fine to do in tank. You can cycle by setting up the tank, setting up your rockwork, fill it with water, and add some kind of ammonia producer whether it by a dead raw shrimp, straight ammonia or a reef starter type program. the idea here is to get the beneficial bacteria going, that feeds on ammonia (from rotting things, like fish poop and fish food, or a dead shrimp), up to a point that you will no longer have ammonia when you add livestock.
A lot of people will cure all dead live rock, just because they are unsure of its contents so better safe then sorry. Curring it you are really out nothing other than a few bags of salt, while if you don't cure it and it is loaded with phoshates you have a big algae problem later in the tanks life.
Hope this clears some things up.

Yes and i guess thats where my confusion is. I understand cycling is different from curing. All the reading iv'e done has said people cure Dry Rock that used to be alive. Well mine is 100% not alive but people say to still cure out of tank and i just can't understand why. I feel like its a wasted extra costly step that i don't need because this will be a new tank start up.

 

[jaws789832]

I would just cycle in the tank. No need to cure

 

[dutch27]

If it's a new tank it can be done in tank, but it's easier to let it leech out the phosphates in a separate dark container so you don't end up battling algae. Also lets you cure it in a location where smell won't matter if there are organics in it that will decompose. I've used quarried Florida rock like Marco sells, cycled it in a Rubbermaid bin, and ended up with algae all over the rocks when they got into my established tank. It was only on the new "never live" rock. Also, I still had ammonia without adding a source to the bin, so there was still a source of organics in the rock somewhere. You can absolutely do this in tank if it's a new tank without livestock yet, that's not uncommon, just personal preference. I did it on a 120 I used to have. That tank did end up with a hair algae problem however, ended up adding a phosban reactor to control it.

You should look into acid/vinegar baths on new base rock. I've never done it but people seem to have success with it.

 

[esolo16]

I would still cure it (in fact I'm curing some now to add to a existing tank). From what I understand you still want to cure it in a dark container with no light to get a biofilm on the surface. This biofilm will help prevent algae from getting a hold of the rock during the cycle and could lead to less headaches down the road. You will probably be fine just throwing it in but just thought I'd throw this in.

 

[fernalfer]

I'm trying to save a step and time but have to convince myself that taking the proper precautions up front may hinder a lot of problems down the road. Patience i guess is key.

 

[FlyinBryan]

I'm trying to save a step and time but have to convince myself that taking the proper precautions up front may hinder a lot of problems down the road. Patience i guess is key.

In so many ways with sw tanks. you do very well to heed this advice!

Ive had 5 different tanks. My second on side stepped this process and killed two fish unnecessarily. I didnt heed my own knowledge.

 

[Cory]

You dont need to cure dry base rock. It might have some phosphates, but thats nothing phosphate remove can't handle

 

[fernalfer]

i have had marco rock sitting in my 120 gallon tank in water and vinegar and a powerhead. I put it in there while getting my brute cans and cleaning them. The first 3 days my tank was crystal clear but the last 2 days it got so cloudy it is hard to see inside. Is this stuff leeching out of my rock? Nothing is in there besides the rock and why did it take 3 days to do this?

 

[Cory]

i have had marco rock sitting in my 120 gallon tank in water and vinegar and a powerhead. I put it in there while getting my brute cans and cleaning them. The first 3 days my tank was crystal clear but the last 2 days it got so cloudy it is hard to see inside. Is this stuff leeching out of my rock? Nothing is in there besides the rock and why did it take 3 days to do this?

Its likely bacteria consuming the vinegar.

 

[fernalfer]

Its likely bacteria consuming the vinegar.

Really you think that's why it is getting cloudy? Should I leave the rock in there soaking or should I drain the water?

 

[Cory]

Really you think that's why it is getting cloudy? Should I leave the rock in there soaking or should I drain the water?

Well id probably leave it there. But it wouldnt hurt to change the water either. And yes bacteria consume vinegar and is not uncommon to have a bloom or fog.

 

[Salty1962]

Bacteria bloom.