Curing Rock

AndyOneTwentyFive · Jul 15, 2016

What's up ladies and gents?
I've got a couple questions about curing rock. I've had my rock in a brute can with heated saltwater and a couple pumps for going on 2 months. I introduced dr tims ammonia to get the cycle going which worked fine and I'm pretty sure it's over but here's why I'm only pretty sure... After everything spiked I saw ammonia come down and then I didn't check it for a while. I just checked it and nitrite is 0 while nitrate is less than 5ppm but there's still .25ppm of ammonia. Should I maybe do a small water change? Or will the ammonia go away?
Now after that's settled my next dilemma is getting the tank set up with the cured rock. I'd love some pointers on how to get the tank aquascaped without letting the rock dry out and die. Also, my original plan for filling up the tank was to fill it with RODI then add salt but I no longer think this is a good idea due to the rock being cured which I assume means it should only be in saltwater in order to maintain the bacteria. If I have to make 160 gallons of saltwater at one time I'm going to have to get creative.
Last and final question is since the rock has gone through a cycle, when I fill the tank up will it go through a cycle again being that all or most of the water will be new? Will it be a small cycle? No cycle at all?
Any input will be much appreciated. Thanks folks.

moreef · Jul 15, 2016

did you do water change in brute can after cycle? Nitrate seems way low to me

fab · Jul 15, 2016

Do it all incrementally. Fill your tank partially, enough to cover one layer of rocks. Move some rocks in. Place them. Add water. Move more rocks in and arrange them. Rinse repeat. Do not fill the tank completely. Just fill it enough to cover the rocks.

Don't worry about cycling. Focus on reefscaping.

When you think you are done with reefscaping wait at least a week or two. Play with your lighting, move it around, making it all look good together. The odds are you will see things about your reefscape and lighting that you want to change. ... More lights, less rock, less densely packed together, too high in tank, not balaced visually, too vertical, too flat, needs a cave here and a swim through there, ... Change it around to your heart's content.

Only after you have felt no urge to rearrange rocks and lights anymore for at least two weeks then fill the tank all the way and promise yourself to leave the reefscape alone for several months. This is when I add my sustrate. I use sand.

Then focus on cycling during those months.

Understand that the water does not cycle. Only hard surfaces cycle, rock, sand, glass, filter media and such. Cycling is a biological process that only leaves its chemical footprints in water chemistry. Once water is fully mixed it is just fully mixed synthetic seawater. Once the hard surfaces have gone through an entire nitrogen cycle and the cycling processes' chemical footprints have settled down, cleaned themselves up and stabilized, then you just have less pure synthetic seawater that you can change out as you see fit for cleaner synthetic seawater. Or you can just keep it and hope your newly cycled hard surfaces will keep the water close to where you want it, which is with good water quality parameters and in your your tank.

AndyOneTwentyFive · Jul 15, 2016

1eberk said:
did you do water change in brute can after cycle? Nitrate seems way low to me

I have not done a water change. Just been topping off with RODI

AndyOneTwentyFive · Jul 15, 2016

fab said:
Do it all incrementally. Fill your tank partially, enough to cover one layer of rocks. Move some rocks in. Place them. Add water. Move more rocks in and arrange them. Rinse repeat. Do not fill the tank completely. Just fill it enough to cover the rocks.

Don't worry about cycling. Focus on reefscaping.

When you think you are done with reefscaping wait at least a week or two. Play with your lighting, move it around, making it all look good together. The odds are you will see things about your reefscape and lighting that you want to change. ... More lights, less rock, less densely packed together, too high in tank, not balaced visually, too vertical, too flat, needs a cave here and a swim through there, ... Change it around to your heart's content.

Only after you have felt no urge to rearrange rocks and lights anymore for at least two weeks then fill the tank all the way and promise yourself to leave the reefscape alone for several months. This is when I add my sustrate. I use sand.

Then focus on cycling during those months.

Understand that the water does not cycle. Only hard surfaces cycle, rock, sand, glass, filter media and such. Cycling is a biological process that only leaves its chemical footprints in water chemistry. Once water is fully mixed it is just fully mixed synthetic seawater. Once the hard surfaces have gone through an entire nitrogen cycle and the cycling processes' chemical footprints have settled down, cleaned themselves up and stabilized, then you just have less pure synthetic seawater that you can change out as you see fit for cleaner synthetic seawater. Or you can just keep it and hope your newly cycled hard surfaces will keep the water close to where you want it, which is with good water quality parameters and in your your tank.

Thanks for the detailed reply, fab. This really helps me wrap my brain around everything.

fab · Jul 16, 2016

Glad to help.

AndyOneTwentyFive · Jul 18, 2016

Ok guys I did about a 20% water change and the next day I tested the water this time I got 1 ppm of ammonia and no2/no3 both zero. So ammonia is up and I don't understand why or how.

brandon429 · Jul 18, 2016

Did the live rock you put in for curing have any coralline or living animals originally or was it all dry rock you are cycling

AndyOneTwentyFive · Jul 19, 2016

brandon429 said:
Did the live rock you put in for curing have any coralline or living animals originally or was it all dry rock you are cycling

It was all dry. Gave it an acid bath followed by several days in fresh water with frequent 100% water changes before starting the cycle in heated saltwater.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jul 19, 2016

AndyOneTwentyFive said:
Ok guys I did about a 20% water change and the next day I tested the water this time I got 1 ppm of ammonia and no2/no3 both zero. So ammonia is up and I don't understand why or how.

It might be testing error, but I'd just monitor it.

redfishbluefish · Jul 19, 2016

If you have ammonia, the cycle is not done. Did you seed the rock either with an existing cycled rock/sand or with one of the bacteria potions (ie Dr. Tim's One and Only or Bio Spira)?

AndyOneTwentyFive · Jul 24, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
If you have ammonia, the cycle is not done. Did you seed the rock either with an existing cycled rock/sand or with one of the bacteria potions (ie Dr. Tim's One and Only or Bio Spira)?

Tried seeding with frozen krill and brine shrimp but got little results then added dr tims and that's when it spiked. I haven't tested it recently but I just got the tank up and running with tap water so soon I will drain, fill with RODI, add salt and then I think I will scape it with the rock and see where I'm at. If all else fails I will try and cycle the tank with beneficial bacteria in addition to an ammonia seed.

redfishbluefish · Jul 24, 2016

I just what to make sure I understand the above post....if you mean to drain the tank holding rock (and maybe sand), and then first fill with RO/DI.....that will kill whatever bacteria you already had going in the rock/sand. No problem emptying the tank, but please refill with already made saltwater.

AndyOneTwentyFive · Jul 24, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
I just what to make sure I understand the above post....if you mean to drain the tank holding rock (and maybe sand), and then first fill with RO/DI.....that will kill whatever bacteria you already had going in the rock/sand. No problem emptying the tank, but please refill with already made saltwater.

Sorry. Talking about the aquarium. The rock is in a brute can

AndyOneTwentyFive · Aug 8, 2016

Ok folks I ended up getting the tank running with saltwater so I pulled the rock out of the brute and did my scape. I then added one bag of live sand and filled the rest with dry. The levels one day later were the same as they were in the brute can. Ammonia = 0.50 NO2 = 0 NO3 = 0. PH 8.0. I then added a couple chunks of FIJI live rock from my LFS. A week later and all levels are the same. Should I wait this out or add some nitrifying bacteria?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 9, 2016

AndyOneTwentyFive said:
A week later and all levels are the same. Should I wait this out or add some nitrifying bacteria?

You can speed it with bacteria, or wait. I don't think it matters much which.

AndyOneTwentyFive · Aug 10, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
You can speed it with bacteria, or wait. I don't think it matters much which.

Thanks, Randy. I went ahead and ordered a bottle of Dr. Tims one and only live nitrifying bacteria. Says it treats 120 gallons. My total system volume is about 150 gallons but seeing as I already have some bacteria established I believe it will work out. So has anybody used this stuff? I read the bottle and it says to add entire contents, make sure your skimmer is off and remove any filter socks for 48 hours. After that do I just test parameters and add fish provided I get a good test?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Aug 11, 2016

Many people have used it with success. Dos has to be very unimportant since bacteria will expand or contract in numbers to fill the niche.

Yes, wait for a good test.

AndyOneTwentyFive · Aug 11, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Many people have used it with success. Dos has to be very unimportant since bacteria will expand or contract in numbers to fill the niche.

Yes, wait for a good test.

Sounds good thank you. I'm also starting to see diatoms so I'm excited for that.

AndyOneTwentyFive · Aug 21, 2016

Ok if anybody is still following this thread I need input. It is now day 6 after adding dr tims one and only live nitrifying bacteria and I'm still getting the same test. Ammonia at 0.50 and zero nitrite or nitrate. What am I doing wrong? I am getting diatoms slowly but surely.

Not sure if you can tell by this pic but I'm getting this weird string thing that hangs off this rock and sways in the current. It appears to be brownish yellow much like the color of the algae I am seeing. (Diatoms right?) I removed it a couple days ago and it's back. Same spot. Same size. No clue. It can be seen on the right side of the photo just above the rock scape. Thanks folks.