Cutting QT short

[pseudorand]

I overstocked my QT and it's had persistent ammonia problems. I've lost a wrasse and tomini tang, but my foxface and bicolor blenny are still alive, though I've thought they would both be dead by morning four times in two weeks. To save them, I want to cut short my QT and dump them in the display. How foolish am I?

Compounding Factors:

• I don't have much $ in fish in my DT (though I try to take the health of my pets seriously irrespective of cost).
• I observed all 4 fish (including the two who died in my QT) in the lfs for two weeks before buying them. All healthy and eating.
• Others on the R2R forums aren't convinced my QT isn't cycling properly, but I keep measuring ammonia and observing fish breathing fast.
• At current rate, I'll spend more on salt to do QT water changes than the cost of all the fish in both my DT and QT combined.
• I've observed no other problems in QT other than the ones I attribute to ammonia. No spots. No ripped fins. Everyone eats except for when I haven't caught the ammonia issues soon enough.

I think going to DT 2 weeks early is the best chance my remaining foxface and blenny have.

Should I do it?

What other symptoms should I look closely for to help decide?

 

[Spare time]

Depending on what meds you are using, you can dose prime. Other than that I would just get a big filter sponge and soak it with dr tims, microbacter xlm, or turbo start 900. I am guessing that you are lacking surface area for your bacteria.


Whether you end it early or not is up to you. You can "rinse" the fish in some of your display tank water too try and remove any water that may have some marine ich cysts or what not. There are also meds you can mix with focus and food and feed in the DT.

 

[pseudorand]

Not enough surface area is my hypothesis too, but how to confirm? I have rock in the tank, but not much flow due to size. My HOB filter is rated for 50 gal (QT is 38), and has a biowheel, carbon and ceramic media seeded from DT. And it's been up for almost 3 months now. The only way I can think to test is buying a canister rated for 100+ gallons or something. But I think my current setup should be sufficient, and that's a lot to spend on what I think is a long shot.

 

[K7BMG]

Beneficial Bactera do not reside in the water column.
So you did not add BB to your qt by using another tanks water.
BB live on surfaces and your media needed to be in contact with the media of the existing tank.

If you were to have taken a rock or other media from the DT and put that into your qt then you would have introduced BB.

The filter media of your HOB should have been placed in the DT a month or so before you started the QT up.

Anyway if you feel there good to go then go for it.

 

[pseudorand]

Beneficial Bactera do not reside in the water column.
So you did not add BB to your qt by using another tanks water.
BB live on surfaces and your media needed to be in contact with the media of the existing tank.

If you were to have taken a rock or other media from the DT and put that into your qt then you would have introduced BB.

The filter media of your HOB should have been placed in the DT a month or so before you started the QT up.

Anyway if you feel there good to go then go for it.

Yes, all media lived in my sump a month before I set up the QT. I QTd corals successful for 45 days. When I put the corals in the DT, I added rocks from the DT sump to the QT and added fish. It was fallow for a week between because lfs didn't have my fish, and the corals were a much lighter bioload than the fish, of course.

I was expecting an ammonia spike, but it was way worse than I thought it would be and it's lasting a long time, so I'm trying to figure out if that's expected or if I have a different problem.

 

[K7BMG]

Yes, all media lived in my sump a month before I set up the QT. I QTd corals successful for 45 days. When I put the corals in the DT, I added rocks from the DT sump to the QT and added fish. It was fallow for a week between because lfs didn't have my fish, and the corals were a much lighter bioload than the fish, of course.

I was expecting an ammonia spike, but it was way worse than I thought it would be and it's lasting a long time, so I'm trying to figure out if that's expected or if I have a different problem.

Humm. Something different then.
I just went off what you said about seeding with DT water earlier in this thread.
Medications will kill BB.

Anyway, if you see no problem with the fish I would transfer.
If you did have to treat for anything then it is not good to cut it short.

 

[pseudorand]

I treated with prazi at first because I thought the wrasse had a fluke on his eye, but that should be bacteria safe.

 

[K7BMG]

Do/did you have an airstone going?
Most all meds deplete oxygen.
Anyway the two fish currently alive.
How are they?

 

[pseudorand]

Do/did you have an airstone going?
Most all meds deplete oxygen.
Anyway the two fish currently alive.
How are they?

Good, I think. If I keep u with 30% water changes every other day and dose ammolock, they don't seem to breathe heavy. They both hide a lot, bit in periods between ammonia spikes, the foxface has been coming out. They eat, except during the spikes. They're hiding again, so it's hard to tell right now.

 

[K7BMG]

Yea, I have always had trouble with QT.

I would hold out for the more experienced than myself.
@Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yea, I have always had trouble with QT.

I would hold out for the more experienced than myself.
@Jay Hemdal

Tough call - I may have missed this, but what ammonia levels are you seeing - and what is the pH level? This has a major bearing on how severe the issue actually is. I always tell folks that quarantine is a value judgement; you need to evaluate the value of the fish in the DT versus the fish in the (possibly) poor QT environment. That said, the rapid breathing issue has me concerned - it could be that this is NOT a symptom of ammonia toxicity, but rather, something else, and then moving those fish will carry that issue into your DT. Another potential issue - ammonia "removers" tend to work well at first, but then, upon repeated dosing, do not have the same benefit. To REALLY mess things up, some ammonia tests cannot tell the difference between toxic free ammonia, and that which has already been bound up by ammonia removers.
I guess, if it were my tank, I would move the fish into the DT and cross my fingers....

Jay

 

[pseudorand]

Tough call - I may have missed this, but what ammonia levels are you seeing - and what is the pH level? This has a major bearing on how severe the issue actually is. I always tell folks that quarantine is a value judgement; you need to evaluate the value of the fish in the DT versus the fish in the (possibly) poor QT environment. That said, the rapid breathing issue has me concerned - it could be that this is NOT a symptom of ammonia toxicity, but rather, something else, and then moving those fish will carry that issue into your DT. Another potential issue - ammonia "removers" tend to work well at first, but then, upon repeated dosing, do not have the same benefit. To REALLY mess things up, some ammonia tests cannot tell the difference between toxic free ammonia, and that which has already been bound up by ammonia removers.
I guess, if it were my tank, I would move the fish into the DT and cross my fingers....

Jay

I think that's what I'm doing.

Ammonia is 0.25 at the highest using api. pH is 8.0 and very steady. API does measure ammonia and ammonium. I assume ammolock converts toxic ammonia into ammonium, but I haven't found a reference for that, nor how it does so without affecting pH.

Ammonia last night was clearly 0.25 (before it has been in between 0 and 0.25), yet fish seem fine today. I suspect ammolock, which I've only been using for 4 days, is the reason. That means I don't have a way to measure how bad it is in the tank though.

 

[pseudorand]

Well, the foxface is drip acclimating. I found the bicolor blenny dead when. I took apart the tank to catch them. I'm not surprised, but I do know he was alive yesterday.

 

[Hugh Mann]

Sorry to hear about your losses. It is always most unfortunate. I do hope it works out with the foxface.

A suggestion for the next batch, if you're already doing 30% water changes every other day, you could just perform the tank transfer method, coupled with a prazi treatment. I believe Humblefish has a write up on it. You can use buckets or plastic bins, heaters and airstones. Ammonia shouldn't be an issue with the frequent transfers. Or keep a sponge filter in your sump if you have one, use for an instant cycle and toss when done.

Also, observation only, while useful is not a guarantee, especially with ich. That one in particular can lay dormant for some time. I had a Hippo in QT for a month before it broke out. Coincidentally the day I was going to put it in my display. Though as it turned out I had gotten cross contamination, but that is another matter entirely.

 

[pseudorand]

So I thought I'd update the thread do dissuade others from making my mistake. The next day I saw ich on the foxface. I bet my son QT lighting kept me from spotting it before. I popped him back into QT and ramped up coppersafe. He's doing well now I think, or at least he's eating consistently. And my seachem ammo alert disk is now clearly yellow.

As for my DT, my royal Gramma appeared to have ich last night so I may have killed all the fish there. She seems better today, but I'm not hopeful.

Lesson learned: get a specimen container and bright light and look closely at anything that goes in display.

 

[pseudorand]

Well, it's been 45 days and all is... surprisingly well. The foxface went back in QT and was cured of ich. The royal Gramma made a full recovery and I haven't seen ich in the DT since. No treatment of any kind in DT, chelated copper in QT. The foxface went in DT a few days ago and is now best friends with my clowns. An unusual but happy ending in the reef...this time.