Cyano problem or nitrate?

Saltwatertaylor

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I have been cycling my 120g aquarium for 2 weeks. I came home after going up north and I have bubbles on all of my live rock and on the side of the tank. There is red algae on the rocks, and some green algae on the bottom. Do you think its because of the nitrate build up or a cyano problem?
If it is a nitrate problem which I think it is, would I just do a big water change?
 
Cyano feeds on nitrates phosphates and light. Seeing it indicated the presence of nitrate and OR phosphate. If this is a new tank you need to ride it out. Let it do its thing.

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It is a new tank. I have a lot of live rock in there too which I have previously killed. So these bubbles are a good thing? I shouldnt do big water changes?
 
Let it cycle. No wc because that will delay cycling process.


Mike D "like the beastie boys" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Well I am never going to petco again for anything. They said it was a cyano problem and that I should do a 25% water change.... ugh.... I knew not to take their advice....
 
Their idiots ! Never go there for anything IMO:)


Mike D "like the beastie boys" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
yeah all tanks go through this cycle you will also get hydroids on your glass
 
Yeah, well I went there for a nitrate test and it was really high. I told them my tank was cycling and they said to do a huge water change.

P.s I have red stuff growing on the live rock which I am guessing is coraline algae. This is a good thing correct?
 
Yeah, well I went there for a nitrate test and it was really high. I told them my tank was cycling and they said to do a huge water change.

P.s I have red stuff growing on the live rock which I am guessing is coraline algae. This is a good thing correct?

Doubtful it's coraline after only being set up for 2 weeks, likely some other algae.
 
"Cyano feeds on nitrates phosphates and light. Seeing it indicated the presence of nitrate and OR phosphate."

Cyano does not need nitrate - cyano can get its nitrogen from the dissolved gas in the water. The reason cyano proliferates first is because you don't yet have enough nitrate for other algaes/bacteria to compete with it. The solution to accelerating the process of cycling is adding additional nitrate to the system, there by eliminating the cyano's competitive advantage and allowing the establishment of competing flora. You need to boost the amount of nitrate to 16x (or more) to that of phosphate. (google Redfield ratios to understand why)

I use ca-mag nitrate fertilizer by botanicare (hydroponics store) - its clean and metals free. Its a 2-0-0 mix of calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. Typically 1-1,5 milliliters per 10 gallons should overcome the nitrogen deficiency which is currently favoring the cyano.


 
I am not quite sure if adding more nitrate is the problem because when I tested my water on a nitrate strip it was extremely pink, indicating that my nitrate level was very high.
 
"Heterotrophic dinoflagellates with symbiotic cyanobacteria and nitrogen limitation in the Gulf of Aqaba"

ABSTRACT: Many symbiotic associations characteristic of tropical and subtropical oceanic waters
were observed near shore during a long-term study of the microbiota in the northern part of the Gulf of
Aqaba, Red Sea. Among such associations were the heterotrophlc dinophysoid genera Omithocercus,
Histioneis and Citharistes with cyanobacterial symbionts. The detection of these heterotroph-autotroph
consortia repeatedly coincided with extended nitrogen limitation in the fall season. Populations of
free-living cyanobacteria, with known N fixation capability, such as the unicellular Synechococcus/
Synechocystis spp. and colonial forms, e.g. Trichodesmiurn spp., also peaked at the same time. We
propose that heterotrophic dinoflagellate hosts may provide the cyanobacterial symbionts with the
anaerobic microenvironment necessary for efficient N fixation. Thus, these self-supporting consortia
increase in numbers during the long period of stratification and nitrogen limitation in the oligotrophic
subtropical waters of the Gulf of Aqaba.

And another - lakes - but the same principle.

THE IMPACT OF NITROGEN AND
PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION AND
N/P RATIO ON CYANOBACTERIAL
DOMINANCE AND N2 FIXATION
IN SOME ESTONIAN LAKES
ILMAR TÕNNO

"Cyanobacteria appear responsible for most of planktonic N2fix in
aquatic ecosystems, this ability gives a significant competitive advantage to
these organisms during the periods of nitrogen limitation (Tilman et al., 1982;
Howarth et al., 1988a; Leppänen et al., 1988)."

many hypotheses have been presented to explain cyanobacterial dominance and blooms in lakes. One of the
most common is resource ratio competition theory, predicting that cyano-
bacteria tend to dominate in lakes where the ratio of nitrogen and phosphorus
(P) is low, mainly because of the ability of some of these species to use
molecular nitrogen (Elser 1999). This theory has been proved both empirically
and experimentally. Cyanobacteria, both fixing and not fixing N2, tend to
dominate if the ratio of total nitrogen (TN) and total phosphorus (TP) in the
water column is below ca. 5–10 by mass (Schindler 1977, Seip 1994, Michard
et al., 1996, Bulgakov & Levich 1999),
 
"Cyano feeds on nitrates phosphates and light. Seeing it indicated the presence of nitrate and OR phosphate."

Cyano does not need nitrate - cyano can get its nitrogen from the dissolved gas in the water. The reason cyano proliferates first is because you don't yet have enough nitrate for other algaes/bacteria to compete with it. The solution to accelerating the process of cycling is adding additional nitrate to the system, there by eliminating the cyano's competitive advantage and allowing the establishment of competing flora. You need to boost the amount of nitrate to 16x (or more) to that of phosphate. (google Redfield ratios to understand why)

I use ca-mag nitrate fertilizer by botanicare (hydroponics store) - its clean and metals free. Its a 2-0-0 mix of calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. Typically 1-1,5 milliliters per 10 gallons should overcome the nitrogen deficiency which is currently favoring the cyano.



Whatever he said I would listen to:)


Mike D "like the beastie boys" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Wow great scientific article! So then water changes wouldnt be to bad of advice because new water has alot of nitrates?
 
If your tank is producing nitrate, then the nitrification part of the process is established (provided you didn't use bacterial additives). You are now at the stage where phospahte control is essential. You need a balance between phosphate and nitrate regardless of the levels to take away cyano's advantage.

Siphon the cyano out - don't stir it in to the sand bed - remove it from the system.

Are you running GFO? If not consider it. As phosphate drops relative ti nitrogen your cyano problem will be controlled by competing flora.
 
No - doing water changes at this point would tend to perpetuate the problem as new water would (hopefully) be devoid of nitrogen sources other than dissolved N2 gas which cyano can use but other flora cannot.

If nitrate is already elevated - bring the phosphate down with GF0 - ignore the nitrate until the phosphate is depleted and cyano will stop on its own. Siphoning out cyano will export both phosphate and nitrate in a 16N:1P ratio. Once the cyano quits taking over - water changes will then be useful to bring the nitrate down.
 
Im sorry what is GFO? And its hard to get the bubbles off the rocks without knocking them over. So you want me to get all the bubbles off the rocks?
 
Granular ferric oxide...you put in a reactor or bag in high flow area and it reduces nitrates


Mike D "like the beastie boys" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Generally wc will work but u can't do that right now. There's always phosphate sponge but I think that's more


Mike D "like the beastie boys" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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