cyano problems

mike007 · Sep 9, 2014

I have been having some cyano issue now for several months. I have tried all the recommended recommendations.
I vacuum it out, reduced feeding, reduced lighting period etc. Nothing Is helping. My temp stays at 77.8 ,nitrates are .05, phos.is .03 I am running Orphec leds. When I was at Macna I spoke with Julian Sprung and he said that I should reduce my water changes to once a month. I am at a loss. I have been using some zeovit products which claim to rid the tank of cyano. Also have lots of low . Maybe Randy can chime in and offer some suggestions.

Noob · Sep 9, 2014

have you tried to shut off your lights completely? or used ChemiClean?

mike007 · Sep 9, 2014

Turning off lights is only a temporary solution. Have to find the source. Chemical treatments are not what I want to use. Thanks.

Daniel@R2R · Sep 10, 2014

mike007 said:
Turning off lights is only a temporary solution. Have to find the source. Chemical treatments are not what I want to use. Thanks.

Hey bro, how is the flow in your tank? I know upping flow can definitely help with cyano.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 10, 2014

Assuming you do not want to go nuclear with an antibiotic, my general recommendation for cyano is reduced phosphate (maybe GFO or other binders, growing macroalgae), reduced organics (more skimming/GAC/binding resins), maybe reduced nitrate, and higher flow.

Manual removal also greatly speeds the elimination.

If you are carbon dosing, maybe switch to a different chemical (vodka switched to vinegar, for example).

Velodog2 · Sep 10, 2014

What was Julian's rationale for recommending reduced water changes?

Chameleon · Sep 10, 2014

Cyano is always in our tanks its just when it gets out of control that we start to notice it. As others have mentioned excess organics can lead to cyano blooms. Cyano can be trickier than other algae (cyano is actually bacteria) as it can fix its own nitrogen from nitrogen gas so excess PO4 is all in needs to bloom. Some tanks experience cyano as a result of a chronic issue with tank water chemistry. Others experience cyano due to a discrete instance that caused a temporary increase in organics. In the latter case (maybe a lost dead fish or small tank crash creating die off) sometimes the cyano will hang in long after the tank has been brought down to manageable nutrients that should control it. I don't have any evidence, but I believe this is because the cyano is living off the dying cyano from a few generations before. What I mean is the cyano makes up a particular biomass off living cells. As a portion of those living cells die the same biomass is present and new cells grow with the nutrients released by dying cells. This leads to a stagnant population size that can get even bigger if there is a spike in nutrients. In this latter case I find the best non-chemical approach is to feed your fish in smaller quantities throughout the day to prevent nutrient spikes from allowing the slime ball to get bigger. In reality though, this later case is where antibiotics (erythromycin) towards gram positive bacteria can be very helpful. The will give the cyano population a big kick and will often cure the cyano problem altogether. Cyano bacteria are a necessary part of your natural filtration in a reef so be careful to have good nutrient control after an antibiotic treatment while your good bacteria have a time to grow again into necessary numbers to handle your organic loads.

mike007 · Sep 10, 2014

Julian told me that if i have cyano I do a water change it fuels the bacteria even more. As i stated phos.,nitrates are low.I have lotsof flow etc. May have to try a chemical treatment Which one is the safest to use?

jackson6745 · Sep 10, 2014

mike007 said:
Julian told me that if i have cyano I do a water change it fuels the bacteria even more. As i stated phos.,nitrates are low.I have lotsof flow etc. May have to try a chemical treatment Which one is the safest to use?

Probably because you remove beneficial bacteria with each water change. In the past I was trying correcting cyano with frequent water changes and it actually made things worse. Lower nutrients helped a little but still the problem was there and i wondered why there were some many tanks with worse water quality than mine, and no cyano. This leads me to believe the actual cause is a lack of "beneficial bacteria" in these system. This is why you see cyano in newer systems often.
I am not a fan of chemical slime removers at all. I used cyano solution chemical once and it made my tank look sterile lol. The sand turned bright white and so did many of my SPS

Worst of all the cyano came back because the system was still unstable in a bacterial sense. I've had great success using microbe-lift special blend in my current tank and previous tanks. I am very heavily stocked and have no cyano in a 10 month old SPS reef. Many others had long term success using Special Blend (search threads on RC)

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 10, 2014

mike007 said:
Julian told me that if i have cyano I do a water change it fuels the bacteria even more. As i stated phos.,nitrates are low.I have lotsof flow etc. May have to try a chemical treatment Which one is the safest to use?

Likely due to the possibility that it is being limited by a trace element in the new water, such as iron.

Of course, that may also mean you are limiting other creatures in the same way.

Unless you do big water changes, the change in bacteria is small (does dropping the water column bacteria by 10% with a 10% water change really have much impact on anything? They can quickly regrow if conditions are right), and most bacteria are attached to surfaces anyway.

duke4130 · Sep 10, 2014

What has worked for me in the past is reducing light, feeding, manual removal and adding Microbacter7 from Brightwells. You need dose the maximum dosage for your system for a couple of weeks. The logic is by adding beneficial bacteria, it will dissolve the excess nutrients (organic waste) faster than the cyano is able to absorb and live off of. If the cyano has nothing to live off of then it will not be able to reproduce and will soon wither away.

Velodog2 · Sep 10, 2014

That's the logic that Zeobac uses - that their bacteria outcompete the cyano for nutrients. I'm trying it myself the last couple of weeks.

I've had cyano for over 18 mos. I'm a very patient person who believed that 20% water changes weekly made with zero TDS fresh water, and using zero TDS make up water, bare bottom, siphoning cyano and all detritus weekly, feeding sparingly, allowing the rocks to purge themselves of adsorbed phophates, running gfo, ad nauseum, would eventually work.

It hasn't.

I have a bottle of chemi-clean in my cupboard, unused.

Pursuing the pro-biotic solution currenty with the zeobac. Seems moderately effective so far ... more patience.

wildcrazyjoker81 · Sep 10, 2014

I used to have cyano outbreaks in my 55G and 10G. I had the same issues as you. Low nitrates and phosphates, but still tons of cyano. Well duh of course we have low nitrate and phosphate numbers. The cyano is feeding off of it and keeping it low for us. I tried the reduced lighting to no avail. GFO worked for a little while too. But ultimately what fixed my issue was one or a combination of 3 things. First I added a TON of pods to my system. Those little scavengers did miracles when the lights went off. The cyano was still present, but no where near as bad. Then I did a complete lights out for 2 days off (I went as far as taping cardboard around the tank to keep all ambient lighting out. I did this twice in 1 week. That got rid of all the cyano in the tank that was physically visible. Then I didn't do a water change for 3 months. (This part was touch and go as I had to manually dose a couple times a week to keep at tolerable levels that would be replaced by water changes). I have not had CYANO in over 11 months since then even with heavy feeding. I also changed to LRS food to help reduce phosphate introduction into my system.

ygon · Sep 10, 2014

If all your parameters are in check, try and increase water flow. I had the same issue months back added another mp40, my cyano problems went away.

beaslbob · Sep 10, 2014

As stated by previous posters what I recommend is to kill the lights and stop all feeding. Cyano will die off usually in just a couple of days. but sometime it can take a week or two.

Then resume with less lighting and feeding. And adjust to cyano stays away and the good stuff thrives.

Basically this IMHO rebalances the system where the desirable algae (corralin and macros) are in control.

my .02

mike007 · Sep 10, 2014

Velodog2 said:
That's the logic that Zeobac uses - that their bacteria outcompete the cyano for nutrients. I'm trying it myself the last couple of weeks.

I've had cyano for over 18 mos. I'm a very patient person who believed that 20% water changes weekly made with zero TDS fresh water, and using zero TDS make up water, bare bottom, siphoning cyano and all detritus weekly, feeding sparingly, allowing the rocks to purge themselves of adsorbed phophates, running gfo, ad nauseum, would eventually work.

It hasn't.

I have a bottle of chemi-clean in my cupboard, unused.

Pursuing the pro-biotic solution currenty with the zeobac. Seems moderately effective so far ... more patience.

I am using zeovit coral snow, biomate, zeozym, bak and cynoclean. The cyano is not real bad but I want to get a hold on it. This tank has been set up for several years without any algae issues before. I have researched all the known cures and I appreciate all input but I have tried all of the suggestions. There has to be something going on that were are not aware of.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 10, 2014

mike007 said:
I have researched all the known cures and I appreciate all input but I have tried all of the suggestions. There has to be something going on that were are not aware of.

How low have you reduced phosphate?

JOKER · Sep 10, 2014

Can the cyano not bind phosphate like algae does? I had a stubborn spot of cyano and I continued battling it but just kept coming back. My phosphate too were at .03 until I used the chemiclean and it died. Then It came up to .08 and had hair algae outbreak. Since I am running gfo and all seems well until the next thing.lol. Seems like just when we get the tank where we want it something says hello

Omega0397 · Sep 10, 2014

I've had issues with Cyano before and am starting to again, I have measured my phosphates using a Hanna checker and have never had them above 0.04. Right now, it reads all zeros. While I think test kits are helpful in pointing out problems we have with our tanks, I think they can also be very misleading. I'm sure the Cyano I have isn't living off of it's own hopes and dreams, I think it consumes the phosphates from the water column as they appear which is why I have low readings.