Cycle 2nd QT tank

[xeanliao]

I have been battling ich in my DT for a long time. Got a hospital tank for copper treatment that seems stable at this moment. however, my current QT seems being containment because a PBT from the HT seems having ich sympton in the QT AGAIN!!! I put the PBT back to DT and letting this old QT go fallow for a month now.

So, the following is what I have now:

1. DT must have ich now, one blue tang died last month (from ich based on symptom),
2. the old QT need to stay fallow for another month+,
3. the HT has one blue tank being treated 3 weeks ago. He has being happier, and I reduced the copper to 50% after the 2nd week.
4. Started a new 20-gallon fishless cycling QT the same time as the blue tank in HT 3 weeks ago. Hoping it completes cycling in time for the above blue tank.

Well, my plan did not go well because the 2nd QT still having high nitrite since ammonia went down to zero 10 days ago. The high nitrite seems just not reducing at all.

I continue dosing the Seachem Stability everyday and wait. Consider getting a damsel fish in to speed up the cycling, but ... I really want this QT tank to be 100% ich free that I guess I have no way to be sure if the damsel has no ich at all?

Any advise?

 

[Big G]

Welcome to R2R! Most new tanks cycle in about 30 days, give or take a few days, to where the ammonia and nitrites are zero. Is the QT tank bare? If so you may want to consider something like a Marinepure block, sphere, etc. to give the bacteria more surface area to grow.

 

[xeanliao]

Welcome to R2R! Most new tanks cycle in about 30 days, give or take a few days, to where the ammonia and nitrites are zero. Is the QT tank bare? If so you may want to consider something like a Marinepure block, sphere, etc. to give the bacteria more surface area to grow.

Its bare bottom with a one piece 15-pound nuked dry rock. looks like nitrite takes longer than ammonia to go down :-(

 

[Big G]

Its bare bottom with a one piece 15-pound nuked dry rock. looks like nitrite takes longer than ammonia to go down :-(

Yep. It (nitrite) is the frustrating one :mad:

 

[xeanliao]

I normally can be patient. The yellow tang in the DT seems have a outbreak 2 weeks ago. It actually looked very strange: there were some sort of dust-like hue all over his body. He used to be the fastest one during feeding time in the DT, although that dust-like hue is gone, but he is slow moving, eating very slow and not competing for food anymore now. I feel I need to move faster to treat the fishes in DT asap :-(

If I can move the blue tang out of the HT to the new QT, I would be able to start treating other fishes in DT one by one. I am thinking just do it and change water to lower the nitrite every day? would you do that, or perhaps just wait longer?

 

[Big G]

I normally can be patient. The yellow tang in the DT seems have a outbreak 2 weeks ago. It actually looked very strange: there were some sort of dust-like hue all over his body. He used to be the fastest one during feeding time in the DT, although that dust-like hue is gone, but he is slow moving, eating very slow and not competing for food anymore now. I feel I need to move faster to treat the fishes in DT asap :-(

If I can move the blue tang out of the HT to the new QT, I would be able to start treating other fishes in DT one by one. I am thinking just do it and change water to lower the nitrite every day? would you do that, or perhaps just wait longer?

The "dust-like hue" is a symptom of velvet. The exposed fish need to be treated asap. Get an Seachem Ammonia badge for the tank. Your going to need to treat with copper and copper makes the chemical test results unreliable. Here's some info you need to read through. Hope this helps. I've been through it.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399

 

[xeanliao]

The "dust-like hue" is a symptom of velvet. The exposed fish need to be treated asap. Get an Seachem Ammonia badge for the tank. Your going to need to treat with copper and copper makes the chemical test results unreliable. Here's some info you need to read through. Hope this helps. I've been through it.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399

OMG, that explains why that one died a month ago: it went south in two days. I have been assuming my DT has only ich ... Thanks so much to tell me this is not ich, that I cannot waiting for a perfect QT anymore, hope its not too late yet.

 

[Forsaken77]

I have been battling ich in my DT for a long time. Got a hospital tank for copper treatment that seems stable at this moment. however, my current QT seems being containment because a PBT from the HT seems having ich sympton in the QT AGAIN!!! I put the PBT back to DT and letting this old QT go fallow for a month now.

So, the following is what I have now:

1. DT must have ich now, one blue tang died last month (from ich based on symptom),
2. the old QT need to stay fallow for another month+,
3. the HT has one blue tank being treated 3 weeks ago. He has being happier, and I reduced the copper to 50% after the 2nd week.
4. Started a new 20-gallon fishless cycling QT the same time as the blue tank in HT 3 weeks ago. Hoping it completes cycling in time for the above blue tank.

Well, my plan did not go well because the 2nd QT still having high nitrite since ammonia went down to zero 10 days ago. The high nitrite seems just not reducing at all.

I continue dosing the Seachem Stability everyday and wait. Consider getting a damsel fish in to speed up the cycling, but ... I really want this QT tank to be 100% ich free that I guess I have no way to be sure if the damsel has no ich at all?

Any advise?

Yes, a large water change. How big are these QT tanks? And you should follow through with a full therapeutic level of copper for at least a month, doing water changes, re adding back the copper you removed, rinse and repeat until the ich cycle is over.

Of course the QT tank will have ich in it because the fish do. I personally use Cupramine (ionic copper) and raise it slowly amd is more easily removed from the water, but if your fish are having a tough time in copper (not eating, listless) then chelated copper may be better but is tougher to remove.

You can't go halfway and then pull back. You have to have the copper at the appropriate levels for at least 1 month straight.

As soon as your Ammonia or Nitrites are detectable, change most of the water. Putting the fish back in an infested tank is just going to kill it anyway. And reducing the copper halfway through will mean the fish have to be in copper longer and can make the ich strain more resistant to treatment.

You are testing the copper levels with the proper test kit for the type of copper used, right?

 

[xeanliao]

Yes, a large water change. How big are these QT tanks? And you should follow through with a full therapeutic level of copper for at least a month, doing water changes, re adding back the copper you removed, rinse and repeat until the ich cycle is over.

Of course the QT tank will have ich in it because the fish do. I personally use Cupramine (ionic copper) and raise it slowly amd is more easily removed from the water, but if your fish are having a tough time in copper (not eating, listless) then chelated copper may be better but is tougher to remove.

You can't go halfway and then pull back. You have to have the copper at the appropriate levels for at least 1 month straight.

As soon as your Ammonia or Nitrites are detectable, change most of the water. Putting the fish back in an infested tank is just going to kill it anyway. And reducing the copper halfway through will mean the fish have to be in copper longer and can make the ich strain more resistant to treatment.

You are testing the copper levels with the proper test kit for the type of copper used, right?

The old QT in fallow is 29g, the one in cycle is 20g, the copper HT is 10g.

I pre-made 20 gallon copper/cupramine water for HT water change and maintain the copper level without testing every day. Tried to test everyday before and found the pre-made cupramine water change all the time actually maintain the copper level pretty well probably because I keep the HT running all the time.

I should do the cupramine treatment for a month? I only do two weeks full dosage based on the instruction on the bottle, reduce to 50% after 2 weeks waiting for the new QT cycling to complete.

 

[Big G]

The old QT in fallow is 29g, the one in cycle is 20g, the copper HT is 10g.

I pre-made 20 gallon copper/cupramine water for HT water change and maintain the copper level without testing every day. Tried to test everyday before and found the pre-made cupramine water change all the time actually maintain the copper level pretty well probably because I keep the HT running all the time.

I should do the cupramine treatment for a month? I only do two weeks full dosage based on the instruction on the bottle, reduce to 50% after 2 weeks waiting for the new QT cycling to complete.

I do 30 days. Some strains of Ich and velvet require the 30 days. And then w/c, charcoal and observe for 2 weeks.

 

[xeanliao]

I do 30 days. Some strains of Ich and velvet require the 30 days. And then w/c, charcoal and observe for 2 weeks.

I was worry too much stress for fishes in cupramine too long. Good to know it is ok for 30 days without too much stress.

 

[Forsaken77]

The old QT in fallow is 29g, the one in cycle is 20g, the copper HT is 10g.

I pre-made 20 gallon copper/cupramine water for HT water change and maintain the copper level without testing every day. Tried to test everyday before and found the pre-made cupramine water change all the time actually maintain the copper level pretty well probably because I keep the HT running all the time.

I should do the cupramine treatment for a month? I only do two weeks full dosage based on the instruction on the bottle, reduce to 50% after 2 weeks waiting for the new QT cycling to complete.

You MUST TEST THE COPPER EVERYDAY!!! Very important. At minimum twice a day testing. Cupramine gives a range of sorts to maintain the level at. They say to keep it at a certain amount, but a higher amount is ok and won't kill the fish. Basically giving a little slack. But don't keep it at the higher level. Keep it at the level it recommends.

Also, your hospital tank should not have any sand or rock in it at all. Do you have sand or rocks? If so, remove it because it will absorb the copper and release it over a period of time. If you remove any, retest after removing it.

Any water changes you make during the month, you will have to add back copper for ONLY the amount of water you changed. In a 10 or 20 gallon tank I would change all of the water because you're sucking up ich off the floor of the tank that maybe hasn't hatched yet.

If you want to make it easy, take out some tank water with the copper in it, put it in a bucket and put the fish in the bucket of tank water so you can completely empty and refill the tank and know exactly how much water was changed. Then add back the copper and then put the fish back in the tank and throw away the water in the bucket they were in.

You have a small powerhead and air bubbler in there? And a heater and thermometer? Also make sure you're only using MECHANICAL FILTRATION, NO CARBON OR PURIGEN for the whole month. Change the mechanical filtration every few days.

You have to keep the copper EXACTLY at it's recommended level the entire time. Pretty close isn't good enough. If it drops below then it may not work. If you have too much, it can injure or kill the fish. That's why you should use the Seachem Copper test kit twice a day. That test kit is made for Cupramine type of copper.

Also, make sure you don't use the hospital tank fish net in your display tank. You should have 2 separate nets.

You really only need 1 tank set up and it doesn't need to be cycled. If you get the Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge and stick it in the tank it will show you when the Ammonia starts to rise and it works very well. As soon as the Badge starts to show the slightest bit of Ammonia, you change all the water. Then the badge will reset to zero over the next hour or so. It's about $10 at most local fish stores. If you have multiple fish, use the 20 gallon. 1 fish, use the ten. If you have more than 3 (medium size fish) or 4 (smaller fish) then I would use both tanks. The smaller the tank setup is, the easier it will be to maintain properly. But don't wait for the tank to cycle to treat the fish. They may die before that.

 

[Forsaken77]

The old QT in fallow is 29g, the one in cycle is 20g, the copper HT is 10g.

I pre-made 20 gallon copper/cupramine water for HT water change and maintain the copper level without testing every day. Tried to test everyday before and found the pre-made cupramine water change all the time actually maintain the copper level pretty well probably because I keep the HT running all the time.

I should do the cupramine treatment for a month? I only do two weeks full dosage based on the instruction on the bottle, reduce to 50% after 2 weeks waiting for the new QT cycling to complete.

Oh, and why do you have a quarantine tank (QT) going fallow? Just clean it out. It's small enough to take to the bathtub to rinse and wipe out. Unless you mean the 29 gallon is your display tank (DT)?

 

[xeanliao]

Oh, and why do you have a quarantine tank (QT) going fallow? Just clean it out. It's small enough to take to the bathtub to rinse and wipe out. Unless you mean the 29 gallon is your display tank (DT)?

The copper HT has no rocks and sands, only HOB mechanical filteration and powerhead. However, I run it al the time with cupramine (with or without fish). It appears to be fully cycle because I never get any ammonia/nitrite with 1 fish in it. So, I only suck up waste and put back with the pre-made cupramine water. I actually am happy with it.

On the other hand, the 29-gallon is bare bottom but a lot rocks. I wanted it to be have full cycled QT, fishonly with no ich. Unfortunately, it seems get containment recently, that is why I cycle 2nd 20-gallon QT that has rock in it.

Big-G mentioned all the tanks will have ich, then my HT/QT setup probably over-doing and probably not going to achieve whatever I wanted to achieve :-(

DT is 120 has coral and invertebrates. Was planning to take my time to catch one by one to HT. Knowing it is marine velvet now, I need to change my plan NOW

 

[Forsaken77]

The copper HT has no rocks and sands, only HOB mechanical filteration and powerhead. However, I run it al the time with cupramine (with or without fish). It appears to be fully cycle because I never get any ammonia/nitrite with 1 fish in it. So, I only suck up waste and put back with the pre-made cupramine water. I actually am happy with it.

On the other hand, the 29-gallon is bare bottom but a lot rocks. I wanted it to be have full cycled QT, fishonly with no ich. Unfortunately, it seems get containment recently, that is why I cycle 2nd 20-gallon QT that has rock in it.

Big-G mentioned all the tanks will have ich, then my HT/QT setup probably over-doing and probably not going to achieve whatever I wanted to achieve :-(

DT is 120 has coral and invertebrates. Was planning to take my time to catch one by one to HT. Knowing it is marine velvet now, I need to change my plan NOW

Yes, velvet can kill the fish in a few days.

 

[xeanliao]

To make room treating other fishes in DT, I decided to move the blue tang from HT to the 20gallon QT that is still having high nitrite. So, I did 50% water change yesterday, and another 75% water change today, hoping the nitrite is low enough to not kill the blue tang ... doing the final testing before pulling the trigger:

The nitrite shoot right back to ... 5 again. This is frustrating because the simple math calculation, ppm * 0.5 * 0.25, just doesn't apply here. Its more than 10 days since ammonia is zero. Is that because the rock in it? Anyway, still have an urgent matter to decide in order to treat other fishes, would you:

1. continue moving the blue tang to the qt with high nitrite and doing 50% water change every day, or,
2. move the blue tang to the old qt that has been in fallow for 32 days.
3. since the last YT outbreak 2 week ago, he seems ok although slow. I haven't lost any fishes since then. Perhaps just continue wait a bit longer?