Cycle Clarification...

[Aaron Shapiro]

Hey All,

Hate to let my newb show publically but that's what we're all here for I suppose. I have a clarifying question about my cycle in progress. My new-to-me RSR 250 is in the process of cycling. Sunday I dosed it to 2-3ppm ammonia using Algaebarn's NitroCyle. Then I dosed it with 3oz of Fritz Turbostart.

By Tuesday evening I was down to .8ppm (according to my RedSea kit) and up to 1ppm (or maybe slightly more) of Nitrite. I tested again last night and was down to .4ppm of ammonia while the nitrite stayed strong. I also tested Nitrate for the first time yesterday and was showing a pretty strong 10ppm (I think, pinks aren't my best colors).

After my testing last night, I dosed it again with what should be the equivalent of another 1ppm of ammonia (hoping to get it to around 1.4-1.5ppm) with Dr. Tim's ammonia, it was easier to control the drops this way. That's correct right? I should continue to dose the ammonia until it goes from 2ppm to zero overnight? I also added the remaining oz of Turbostart, figured why not?

Let me know if I'm understanding this correctly and if I should be doing anything differently.

Thanks!

 

[brandon429]

Simplest option:

If you leave the current arrangement in place for 30 days then change out the water, or at least a large chunk of it, you are cycled. No interim testing required. It's done before 4 weeks, and accurate ammonia testing will reveal that time frame, but a month is universal and your tank cannot fail to cycle by then using known rules of microbiology that describe these known time frames.

Aquarium testers range in accuracy so much, there is now a practice in cycling where we don't use them and we go off the info all google cycling charts show to occur at certain time frames: nitrite always complies with zero ammonia by day 25 on every chart, that means we don't need to know nitrite nor ammonia given twenty days or so. We round up to universal 30 = no test cycling.

No param drifts spikes or troughs you create or measure within the ramp up time matters to the end measure. Everyone is dosing different amounts of ammonia and it doesn't matter...old dr Tims directions had people dosing accidentally 2x too much, and no cycles died or stopped. The ammonia tests people use to guide input are varying massively across tanks, google searches show for API and Red Sea ammonia measures.

At thirty days of dosing nothing else, you can change water, redose ammonia and then test next day and it will be oxidized, which is proof only surfaces did the cycling measure.

Most importantly, you cannot stall a cycle. Neither with spikes of nitrite nor ammonia, you can't and it's never happened in a display tank in all of reefing though I'm aware literally 1.4 million API tests logged have claimed otherwise. They're all wrong

Summary: nothing you add or withhold is going to stop what we can predictably measure end of November. You can't mess up the cycle. Add more ammonia or don't add, doesn't matter. Source: microbiology of cycling thread

 

[Brian barranco]

Perfect. Let the ammonia clear and then dose again. I usually dose smaller increments due to it being stalled when I cycle a tank .5ppm-1.5ppm

 

[lapin]

The more ammonia you feed your tank the more bacteria will grow. You can continue to dose.
The rule of thumb is:
When ammonia is processed from 2 to 0 in 24 hours and the tank can process the nitrite to nitrate, you are cycled enough to change out the water. You want to start with very little nitrate. Its ready to add some fish.

 

[Aaron Shapiro]

Simplest option:

If you leave the current arrangement in place for 30 days then change out the water, or at least a large chunk of it, you are cycled. No interim testing required. It's done before 4 weeks, and accurate ammonia testing will reveal that time frame, but a month is universal and your tank cannot fail to cycle by then using known rules of microbiology that describe these known time frames.

Aquarium testers range in accuracy so much, there is now a practice in cycling where we don't use them and we go off the info all google cycling charts show to occur at certain time frames: nitrite always complies with zero ammonia by day 25 on every chart, that means we don't need to know nitrite nor ammonia given twenty days or so. We round up to universal 30 = no test cycling.

No param drifts spikes or troughs you create or measure within the ramp up time matters to the end measure. Everyone is dosing different amounts of ammonia and it doesn't matter...old dr Tims directions had people dosing accidentally 2x too much, and no cycles died or stopped. The ammonia tests people use to guide input are varying massively across tanks, google searches show for API and Red Sea ammonia measures.

At thirty days of dosing nothing else, you can change water, redose ammonia and then test next day and it will be oxidized, which is proof only surfaces did the cycling measure.

Most importantly, you cannot stall a cycle. Neither with spikes of nitrite nor ammonia, you can't and it's never happened in a display tank in all of reefing though I'm aware literally 1.4 million API tests logged have claimed otherwise. They're all wrong

Summary: nothing you add or withhold is going to stop what we can predictably measure end of November. You can't mess up the cycle. Add more ammonia or don't add, doesn't matter. Source: microbiology of cycling thread

The more ammonia you feed your tank the more bacteria will grow. You can continue to dose.
The rule of thumb is:
When ammonia is processed from 2 to 0 in 24 hours and the tank can process the nitrite to nitrate, you are cycled enough to change out the water. You want to start with very little nitrate. Its ready to add some fish.

SO when the time comes I want to change out the entire 60gallons?

 

[brandon429]

That depends on how much intital algae feed you want running under full production lighting after cycle. That's one reason I wouldn't keep dosing ammonia in bigger tanks, but as you can see the common approach is to add it multiple times out of concern the bac won't be fed enough, you get to choose. I'm thinking past your cycle since it's inevitable now and into the uglies phase wondering how long it will take the new reef to be enjoyed. I like to not over feed in tanks that can't do final step wc

If you'd like to add more ammonia, changing half that water isn't hard and will reduce nitrate close to half, that helps as middle ground

Am merely listing the simplest cheapest certain date option. You wouldn't have to change water if you don't add lots more ammonia, it will cycle and pass a 30 day ammonia test if you add no more ammonia, add some, or add lots. Your interim tests will vary based on dosing, and the ending metabolite mix will vary tank to tank...we do the big final water change to export all that mess and test actual surfaces. After doing the test for pages in our cycling thread, we can see the timeframes always comply and testing can be omitted if desired. Almost nobody in reefing desires that they love to tinker.

When tinkering with ammonia, doubt or cross check verify any tester that isn't seneye or similar methods. What bacteria do, they do by day thirty don't let any nine dollar tester make you doubt that, I think that's the best summary of 2019 cycling science vs old ways. We don't even factor nitrite at any stage now, it's a fully unneeded test kit and the most not needed to know param in reefing. Today's cycling is about submersion time and or ammonia performance. From those alone we can turn out any reef tank with fish and they don't die. Inputting fish into an uncycled system w kill them overnite in a cloudy messy crashed tank, wrong calls will be reported quickly and loudly w anger emojis

 

[brandon429]

One other thing

Dr Reefs study thread shows your whole system was cycled likely in two days by using fritz

Meaning, I bet it would pass a full change ammonia assemment right now lol to heck w 30 days isn't that a trip? Not that it's practical to change out all water and re test ammonia, that's just the only way to prove dosed bac in suspension isn't cheating the reading. A real cycle cannot be killed or undone with a full water change, so that's how we test those claims.

He already verified multi times we don't need to guess about yours, it could pass right now lol so 30 days is ubercyled. That expensive cycling bac is the most active he found, his test vessels were passing full water change oxidation testing in under 48 hours.

Though I don't have a term for it, there is some phenomena going on in reef cycle science like moores law handles computing power it's getting fast legit

 

[Aaron Shapiro]

Yea I'll test again this evening and see where I'm at. I'd love to get the livestock from my smaller tank moved over then break that smaller tank down.

 

[brandon429]

if you want to test that safely all you have to do is move some lower level stuff over like a clean up crew. if the water starts to cloud up or smell thats true ammonia and you can slow/remove/backstep but I bet it wont. canary test with them, overnite is easily safe. uncycled w go rank faster than overnite.

if no death overnite, add some more it all adds up like his testing showed / Dr Reef

 

[BeejReef]

nah, not a 100% water change.
You just don't want crazy high nitrate and phosphate that will turn into an algae farm the moment you fire your lights. Under 25N maybe? Whatever your export is should be able to take it from there.

 

[Aaron Shapiro]

Well, I just tested after maybe 20hours from dosing ammonia again and I'm at 1.2ppm. What I 'should' have done in retrospect was test 30mins or so after I dosed originally. I'll try again tomorrow and see where I'm at.