Cycle for fast livestock addition

ross0201 · Apr 20, 2019

I'm new to the forum and saltwater tanks but I've had freshwater tanks on and off for most of my life. I was just hoping to get some advice for this idea in my head. Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it.

If I do an extended fishless cycle and make sure my tank can remove a heavy load of ammonia quickly can I add a large fish population at once? I would assume making a big water change before adding fish to lower nitrates along with careful monitoring, possibly frequent water changes.

I like the idea of buying exactly the fish I want online, but paying the shipping 1 fish at a time doesn't appeal to me! I'm not in a rush, still don't have water in my tank, but I thought I'd run this idea by the forum.

This forum is a pretty amazing resource, thanks to everyone who's been contributing!

RIreefGuy · Apr 20, 2019

Welcome to R2R!! Can u tell us about your setup? Tank size, how much rock, sump, skimmer etc. Also what you are thinking about for fish?

Salty Lemon · Apr 20, 2019

If you do anything quickly in this hobby, you generally run into trouble. If you have a large tank it will be easier to add a few fish at a time vs if your tank is "smaller". I get the expensive shipping -- there have been times where I've had a cart and I just can't justify spending $45 on shipping when I have an lfs about twenty minutes away. Some places have regular sales so it makes up for the shipping costs. Liveaquaria has what I consider reasonable shipping in this hobby. https://www.liveaquaria.com/ Anything over $99 is has free shipping. You could order some supplies and a couple fish and it should cover the costs.

Billdogg · Apr 20, 2019

Salty Lemon said:
If you do anything quickly in this hobby, you generally run into trouble. If you have a large tank it will be easier to add a few fish at a time vs if your tank is "smaller". It get the expensive shipping -- there have been times where I've had a cart and I just can't justify spending $45 on shipping when I have an lfs about twenty minutes away. Some places have regular sales so it makes up for the shipping costs. Liveaquaria has what I consider reasonable shipping in this hobby. https://www.liveaquaria.com/ Anything over $99 is has free shipping. You could order some supplies and a couple fish and it should cover the costs.

^^^This^^^

In addition, you really should think long and hard about a proper QT for any and all new additions. Sure, you are fishless now, but any new addition can introduce various pathogens (Ich, Brook, Uronemia, flukes, etc etc etc) to your system. Once in the system it can be difficult or impossible to rid the tank of them. Getting a few at a time and using a small (20g?) tank as a hospital/QT tank will pay off in spades in the long run. You will be able to observe and treat any issues there way more easily.

Salty Lemon · Apr 20, 2019

Billdogg said:
^^^This^^^

In addition, you really should think long and hard about a proper QT for any and all new additions. Sure, you are fishless now, but any new addition can introduce various pathogens (Ich, Brook, Uronemia, flukes, etc etc etc) to your system. Once in the system it can be difficult or impossible to rid the tank of them. Getting a few at a time and using a small (20g?) tank as a hospital/QT tank will pay off in spades in the long run. You will be able to observe and treat any issues there way more easily.

@Billdogg is right. I have two 20L tanks I use for quarantine. Everyone has different philosophies about this subject on here -- but no matter what yours is (and you need to do this through research), it is good to start out a fish in a separate tank just to confirm it isn't carrying anything lethal that can wipe out everything you have. I picked up both my tanks used for $20 on Craigslist.

ross0201 · Apr 20, 2019

RIreefGuy said:
Welcome to R2R!! Can u tell us about your setup? Tank size, how much rock, sump, skimmer etc. Also what you are thinking about for fish?

Thanks! It's a 50 gallon cube, 20 gallon sump, 50 lb dry live rock, Reef octopus 150 skimmer. I plan to use a refugium with algae and pods. I will have an auto water change system so that will be easy to do.

Stocking I don't know exactly, I figure I'm at least a month out but I was thinking:

2 clowns (standard ones)
Goby/shrimp pair
Ferry or flasher wrasse, something with an easy temperament, colorful, active.
I'd like an algae eater of some kind but the tank seems a little small for the usual recommendations.

ross0201 · Apr 20, 2019

Billdogg said:
^^^This^^^

In addition, you really should think long and hard about a proper QT for any and all new additions. Sure, you are fishless now, but any new addition can introduce various pathogens (Ich, Brook, Uronemia, flukes, etc etc etc) to your system. Once in the system it can be difficult or impossible to rid the tank of them. Getting a few at a time and using a small (20g?) tank as a hospital/QT tank will pay off in spades in the long run. You will be able to observe and treat any issues there way more easily.

Right. So I have reached out to Humblefish this morning about his QTed fish. The big reason I would be interested in this would be so I can put off QT. If he's not up and running yet I'll probably go a LFS route.

Idoc · Apr 20, 2019

ross0201 said:
paying the shipping 1 fish at a time doesn't appeal to me

Another option... if you have a LFS anywhere near you...is to ask them for a specific fish. They can order what you want and then you don't get hit with the shipping costs.

Westside Guy · Apr 20, 2019

ross0201 said:
Right. So I have reached out to Humblefish this morning about his QTed fish. The big reason I would be interested in this would be so I can put off QT. If he's not up and running yet I'll probably go a LFS route.

Please keep us posted.

brandon429 · Apr 20, 2019

Once the fish ethics are decisioned then issue of the quick bioload isn’t hard, I just went to aquashella convention where 300 aquarists with the same fish above and some with fifty grand in frags opted out of their cycle and brought insta setups to a giant convention. Doing that in your home would be easy as well

It’s not that skip cycling varies, only in threads. In the real world all conventions run this way because skip cycling doesn’t vary. We wouldn’t even need to test your setup for any param to skip cycle it, we just buy refrigerated fritz turbo, open the can, tilt lol

Nem0 · Apr 20, 2019

Salty Lemon said:
If you do anything quickly in this hobby, you generally run into trouble. If you have a large tank it will be easier to add a few fish at a time vs if your tank is "smaller". I get the expensive shipping -- there have been times where I've had a cart and I just can't justify spending $45 on shipping when I have an lfs about twenty minutes away. Some places have regular sales so it makes up for the shipping costs. Liveaquaria has what I consider reasonable shipping in this hobby. https://www.liveaquaria.com/ Anything over $99 is has free shipping. You could order some supplies and a couple fish and it should cover the costs.

Is it over $99 combo of livestock and dry goods that allow you to qualify for free shipping? or do you need $99+ in livestock?

Salty Lemon · Apr 20, 2019

Nem0 said:
Is it over $99 combo of livestock and dry goods that allow you to qualify for free shipping? or do you need $99+ in livestock?

Oops! $99+ in livestock. Great catch @Nem0 !
https://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=28

lion king · Apr 20, 2019

Not getting into the qt debate. You can cycle your tank with ammonia, and by using a higher level of ammonia and doing a complete cycle a few times, you will establish a greater amount of nitrifying bacteria. By processing a higher level of ammonia the tank will be able to handle a heavier load of initial fish stocking. Search Dr Tim's to find more specific info.

ross0201 · Apr 20, 2019

lion king said:
Not getting into the qt debate. You can cycle your tank with ammonia, and by using a higher level of ammonia and doing a complete cycle a few times, you will establish a greater amount of nitrifying bacteria. By processing a higher level of ammonia the tank will be able to handle a heavier load of initial fish stocking. Search Dr Tim's to find more specific info.

This was my thinking. I won't have coral in the tank yet so it seemed doable. Just wanted some other opinions.

ross0201 · Apr 20, 2019

brandon429 said:
Once the fish ethics are decisioned then issue of the quick bioload isn’t hard, I just went to aquashella convention where 300 aquarists with the same fish above and some with fifty grand in frags opted out of their cycle and brought insta setups to a giant convention. Doing that in your home would be easy as well

It’s not that skip cycling varies, only in threads. In the real world all conventions run this way because skip cycling doesn’t vary. We wouldn’t even need to test your setup for any param to skip cycle it, we just buy refrigerated fritz turbo, open the can, tilt lol

Sure; I never knew how it was done at the temporary setups. I read through most of your thread on cycling, you even got me to rinse my sand!

ross0201 · Apr 20, 2019

Idoc said:
Another option... if you have a LFS anywhere near you...is to ask them for a specific fish. They can order what you want and then you don't get hit with the shipping costs.

Thanks, it's a good option. I was just hoping to avoid 5-6 months of quarantining various fish!

GTM42 · Apr 20, 2019

I would highly recommend a QT and LFS, there is no more stress added to the fish than being shipped across the world, and you can see before you buy. Selecting your specimen can be a key to success, especially when you can get the LFS to feed the fish for you. And at the end of the day it is great to support your LFS, so that they don't go out of business.

Wolf89 · Apr 21, 2019

If you order a fish through your LFS, they will usually cover the shipping.

brandon429 · Apr 21, 2019

You will love that cloudless no murky water pre rinse

Lfs should see about selling pre quarantined fish so that they sell fish most likely to live, and so they keep up with online vendors who do

I understand not wanting to wait for the enjoyment, buy pre q fish then, they won't make it from the lfs with no quarantine current posts in the fish forum show

brandon429 · Apr 21, 2019

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-other-way-to-run-a-reef-tank-no-quarantine.534274/

That thread is your official introduction to why quarantining is absolutely required

It's ironic that's a pro non-quarantine article, used as reasons you should never use the method. The article makes its inverse case instead, certainly quarantine.

Well they're at a hundred and ten pages and I don't see many new tanks they guided without quarantine for proof.

I have an idea for a perfect person to guide your new fish purchases / track live time

You'll have to agree to feed only live foods never ever lfs bought food, the article above shows the method and that's what's required.

Non quarantine has worked, but so rarely hardly anyone agrees nowadays when we consider years of fish loss and current threads in the fish forum