Cycle

[tomboys]

Going through the cycle on our new tank. Dosed Mr Tim's One and Only and 2ppm Dr Tim's ammonium chloride day 1. Now on day 3 and the ammonia has read 2ppm every day on the Red Sea kit, but now we've got our Seneye working and it says 0.086ppm (but still reads 2ppm on the Red Sea kit). Which would you believe? Tempted to add another bottle of Dr Tim's and buy another brand of test kit (incase the first of either was a dud)

 

[brandon429]

Always always believe the seneye that’s correct above per a thousand measures

I collect Red Sea misread examples will you pls post a pic of the actual reading compared to the card

we are on page nine so far of Red Sea nearly constantly making folks doubt their cycle status. What your cycle is doing: bacteria in suspension are keeping a massive dose of ammonia the tank will never see outside of cycling immediately in check. this is a back pat for Dr Tims bottle bac ability and seneye, and soon to be another ripoff example for Red Sea on page nine.


Dr. Tims own directions to blast this much ammonia initially has really set back our cycling practices causing much doubt. Much re purchase of bac though they’re fine. You can directly see that non digital test kits can’t deal with this blast. Your post is about to help many cyclers once we get the actual visual read off Red Sea so we can assess if it’s a an nh3 misread as well, which I bet it is. I bet it’s too dark to even decently indicate nh3 after conversion on the instructions chart. Thankfully seneye is here to stop doubt, it’s usually not, that is how we got to page nine on the Red Sea misread thread.


hundreds of seneye + bioload + bottle bac readings match yours above, believe the seneye due to sheer volume of linkable searchable examples.

dosing two ppm ammonia by rule into a cycle is directly calculated to oversell bottle bacteria ninefold because rule writers know that non digital kits will indicate a fake stall, every time. It concerns me to see cycling umpires always advise folks to keep up this practice 100% of the time, we should cease this practice. Inputting 1/4th that much ammonia gets the same ends and gives the non digital tests a chance to actually work.

 

[Garf]

Going through the cycle on our new tank. Dosed Mr Tim's One and Only and 2ppm Dr Tim's ammonium chloride day 1. Now on day 3 and the ammonia has read 2ppm every day on the Red Sea kit, but now we've got our Seneye working and it says 0.086ppm (but still reads 2ppm on the Red Sea kit). Which would you believe? Tempted to add another bottle of Dr Tim's and buy another brand of test kit (incase the first of either was a dud)

Red Sea is total ammonia, seneye is free ammonia. This ratio changes with pH mainly. Neither test is likely to be very accurate, more of a trending tool. Post a pic of the tank, if you can.

 

[tomboys]

Always always believe the seneye that’s correct above per a thousand measures

I collect Red Sea misread examples will you pls post a pic of the actual reading compared to the card

Here you go - to me it doesn't really look like any of the colours, but I would take it to be >2. I'm confident that it was performed right because although it is my first tank, I work in a lab!

 

[brandon429]

That's wonderful. I'll trade you now with the red sea false read thread.

None of these are in cycle. They're post, many with that same read

The way we know which test is right without a third digital umpire is because which reading from yours above best fits the animal behavior, water clarity, coral health of these concerned reefers- the kit indicating stalled deadly cycle or the kit specifically reading safe zone even before its trimmed:

Sustained Ammonia spikes are misreads

The reason you think your reef tank can’t control its ammonia is due to false training from old cycling science. That and you don’t own a seneye on the tank in question: if you did, you wouldn’t ever think your ammonia was out of control...

www.reef2reef.com

That reading above isn't even accurate after nh3 conversion. Your post is very very very helpful

 

[brandon429]

Tom

The final step to perfect your cycle is this: add in two finely ground up pinches of flake feed into the tank. Make sure you have plenty of rock stewing in this mix. Wait ten days, do a big water change, all the bac are adhered to surfaces and the tank is ready with no further testing at all in this time frame.

 

[Dan_P]

Going through the cycle on our new tank. Dosed Mr Tim's One and Only and 2ppm Dr Tim's ammonium chloride day 1. Now on day 3 and the ammonia has read 2ppm every day on the Red Sea kit, but now we've got our Seneye working and it says 0.086ppm (but still reads 2ppm on the Red Sea kit). Which would you believe? Tempted to add another bottle of Dr Tim's and buy another brand of test kit (incase the first of either was a dud)

2 ppm total NH3 could be 0.09 ppm free NH3. What is the temperature and pH of the system?

 

[tomboys]

2 ppm total NH3 could be 0.09 ppm free NH3. What is the temperature and pH of the system?

8.2 and about 26ish, although the Seneye said 21ish - but that's totally different to the temperature controller and thermometer.

 

[Dan_P]

8.2 and about 26ish, although the Seneye said 21ish - but that's totally different to the temperature controller and thermometer.

Just checked out the numbers here. Your ammonia is high.

Free Ammonia Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the free (un-ionized) ammonia (NH3) concentration, given the total ammonia concentration.

www.hamzasreef.com

I suspect a dud bottle of Dr. Tim’s. Try BioSpira or Fritz Turbo Start.

 

[BostonReefer300]

If you're using a high quality bacteria product like Dr. Tim's and you have good parameters and plenty of rock, you're pretty good to go. The bacteria need ammonia to feed on so that\'s why Brandon said to add some food. As it breaks down, it'll feed the bacteria. If you're worried the bacteria didn't colonize the first time, add some more Dr. Tim's or some cheap Bio-Spira. Add a fish or some hermit crabs. You'll be all set. Have fun!

 

[tomboys]

If you're using a high quality bacteria product like Dr. Tim's and you have good parameters and plenty of rock, you're pretty good to go. The bacteria need ammonia to feed on so that\'s why Brandon said to add some food. As it breaks down, it'll feed the bacteria. If you're worried the bacteria didn't colonize the first time, add some more Dr. Tim's or some cheap Bio-Spira. Add a fish or some hermit crabs. You'll be all set. Have fun!

Well my ammonia, nitrate and nitrite haven't changed at all yet since I dosed the ammonia. It's only been three days, but I at least expected some drop in ammonia etc.

 

[brandon429]

you’re not measuring nitrite and nitrate digitally either, correct? See what non digital does when compared to digital? We actually don’t know your real measures for those params.

Tomboys

somewhere there’s a meme of the emperor from Star Wars with bent lighting fingers stating you will buy more bottles, you will (lighting fingers lighting fingers) you will not escape the doubt that non digital testing provides


also

all those tanks from nine pages just like yours/ are they dead

Or was Red Sea freaking them out solely Red Sea and not one discernible symptom from the macro stepped back view of the tank


the hyperfocused view of super green Red Sea to the exclusion of open corals, clean water, happy fish was required to make that running example


if you message any single one from that example thread right now — what do they say about symptoms that never manifested beyond a non digital test kit

 

[brandon429]

I’ve seen that people literally want to choose the bad outcome where given a choice between pass/fail cycle readings. Something has trained permanent default doubt in us it’s amazing (I have an idea who causes and benefits from the doubt). It doesn’t matter how many examples of tricked assessments are on file, we choose the doubt mode always that’s my finding in reef cycle trending.


I was always against 2 ppm dosing it’s too much and if that’s hard to clear for all three params measured digitally overnite thats not a surprise. Your cycle wasn’t compromised just because an inordinate degree of ammonia couldnt be cleared to zero overnite…the fact seneye shows it cleared 99% is an amazing testament to the virility of the living bac you dosed. It’s opposite of a fail, you have documented a clear win.



Seneye would be pegged to the moon for you if the bac were inactive. Seneye misreads as a .001 or some huge degree like .9 with spikes when slides are bad in some way

it doesn’t misread at the same levels as my link below from a separate household (hundredths ppm is close enough given the context to assume accuracy not inaccuracy)

nobody errs on the side that water bacteria do ok in water by default, this is the trend noted.


*a classic continuance in misreading comparison threads is the trick of benching the Red Sea kit on distilled water where it reads perfect and thereby means this reading above is correct

don’t fall for that, it’s not, there are metabolites and factors yet to be determined in dosed reef tanks we’d never expect in potable water and it messes up Red Sea kits

we have examples on file of even potable water showing concerning free ammonia too on Red Sea and api, those color compare tests can be bonkers.


That color above is much darker than two ppm, it should be pale light green in order to match up to seneye and match up to the nine pages of tanks on file as they present with open corals and happy fish, but it’s all dark readings. Concerning dark readings for pages.

New Cycle - Seneye vs API

Hello All, Have just started to cycle a new DD ReefPro 900. Am using Fritzzyme Fishless food and Turbo Start and am 2 days in. I have dosed twice with Fishless food on the back of the seneye readings which are as follows: But the API result seems to be showing a different story. I`ve seen a...

www.reef2reef.com

seneye vs api shows what you showed in post one, a trend unfolding where non digital kits are ripoffs to the masses. There is a massive slow lag time where Red Sea and api take days on end to register the ammonia drop long after it’s happened, shown above.

it’s phenomenal to me in work study threads out to thirty pages of live time entrants we have zero loss examples of stocked life forms and zero examples where an intended biofilter failed to setup right out of the bottle. When seneye stops in our work thread, total compliance is shown always like your seneye says above.

non digital testing has wrecked, wrecked the concept of cycling in this hobby. It made all buyers doubt, and re buy fixes, and all sellers remain in total control of timely and able starts without a stumble.

the chasm between doubtful buyers and resolved sellers will continue far into 2022, it gives me something to do online at least.



the main takeaway point is that seneye doesn’t have to be pinpoint perfect on nh3 readings to be the best meter we have for the param, able to show the tiniest changes between status and matches overall tank layout with a near perfect track record.

Red Sea and api cause the concerns, seneye and or a tank picture quells them. Thats the current status of free ammonia measure in the hobby.

 

[brandon429]

The reason fish-in cycling works so well (fish and bottle bac added day one, they skip dosing the 2 ppm ammonia and ride on fish waste) is because the waste from a couple clownfish is easy walk to clear for bottled bac, you have to really press n stress bottle bac and these testers with ten times too much ammonia to start the doubt mode.


This is why we do the big water change on day ten ish, that exports any concern for uncleared water and by rule the biofilter has deposited by that time. Cycling in 2022 is no longer about waiting open ended for wastewater to clear on all three params, thats so 2021 heh. In 2022 we demand timely starts, predicted ready dates. That way when we stroll the aisles of a reef convention and see two hundred full running reef tanks where nobody missed the start date we won’t be vexed by the magic they used to escape the very doubt mode creeping up here.


sellers never stall, never doubt, never have failed cycles, they never dose to 2 ppm three times over and they never rely on non digital test kits for forward permission to begin. That’s a realm solely for trained buyers so a sales gradient will persist.

 

[Dan_P]

Well my ammonia, nitrate and nitrite haven't changed at all yet since I dosed the ammonia. It's only been three days, but I at least expected some drop in ammonia etc.

You should see something by now.

 

[brandon429]

Post the readings as a digital readings for nitrite and nitrate. The kits exist for both, so if those are going to be factored in the cycle start date why not move away from misreading non digital kits, the kind we build one hundred misread examples from.

I’m not following the lead here to own a $180 tester and then immediately disavow it for a twelve dollar one shown to mislead on a near constant basis.

Solely because seneye shows passing score, on a scale not involved in misreads (.001 or something very high in the tenths on our bad slide examples is how they misread) we deem it wrong?

Tomboys that example above is one of ten, some of the collections within ten more avail links are twenty pages of misreads from api and Red Sea

it’s not possible to claim Red Sea is infallible based on that collection.


seneye isn’t found misreading in our collections at .0x hundredths that’s close enough to assume general accuracy given the context stated pH (measured digitally/ calibrated?) and the fact we have matching seneye measures nearly exact for Dr Tims.

use a set of horseshoes and a lawn bullseye for better collective measure

if I posted a link where two different nitrite kits gave 100% opposite readings on the same sample would it matter? No, because in cycling we literally want to be stuck, it’s part of the program.

it feels better if we click and redo the purchase, an easing of programmed stress. Make the click~

Directly above is a second link where seneye is in the hundredths and api is pegged green, it’s an analog to this post. Api took ten days to drop and seneye calibrated darn close on a running reef as proof of decent accuracy.



if the red sea was accurate in post 1 it would be very light green, not dark green.

 

[brandon429]

2 weeks into cycling- help!

Hey everyone! So I am about 2 weeks into cycling my Red Sea nano. I’ve got a good set up (equipment wise) and no live rock- just gravel and hard (dried) rock. I’ve been using the Dr Tims products to cycle the tank. (Ammonia and Bacteria). I follower the guide, and after dosing the ammonia for...

www.reef2reef.com

look at that seneye reading another tenth, after blasting ammonia into dr tims bottle bac


You can bet I’m going to ask him to take a water sample from his .01 tank in for a non digital test comparison. We will build a third twin to Tomboys post.

even with his pH misreading at nine it’s pretty fair of seneye to land at tenths again even before trimming. He may be reading the nh4 leg of the read but still it’s not showing a backup of unprocessed ammonia. There sure are a lot of new seneye owners posting up we will be able to extract valuable trending off them, and Dr Tims is having all them dose ammonia multiple times, and in high amounts…a true workout.

current trending we clearly see off mere three seneye posts: they read in ways that show oxidation vs stalling from lack thereof. once he posts a comparative non digital test read, which I predict will indicate a stall, we will have a third set of very similar tanks to compare. 2022 is going to be a neat year shoring up already known cycle timing is the bet, thanks to seneye en masse