Cycling a frag tank?

[45ZoaGarden]

I’m setting up my 24 gallon frag tank and plan to get water in it today. It will be bare bottom with no lr (except rubble in nem bin). Will it be fine to cycle? Or does it have to have some lr for bacteria to grow on? I’ve never had a tank without lr and sand. The frag rack will be in the tank during the cycle.

 

[Crabs McJones]

You could do a hang on back filter with filter floss in it. You'll want some sort of spot for the bacteria to colonize. Another option would be the biomedia blocks on the bottom of the tank. But just a frag rack and tank won't give the bacteria alot of surface to colonize and thrive.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Oh! I forgot to mention it is a aio tank and will have the sponge/floss in it

You could do a hang on back filter with filter floss in it. You'll want some sort of spot for the bacteria to colonize. Another option would be the biomedia blocks on the bottom of the tank. But just a frag rack and tank won't give the bacteria alot of surface to colonize and thrive.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Oh! I forgot to mention it is a aio tank and will have the sponge/floss in it

Perfect! A bottle of Bio Spira and you'll be all set

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Perfect! A bottle of Bio Spira and you'll be all set

If I threw some rubble or snail shells from the dt into the nem bin would it speed up the cycle?

 

[brandon429]

The biospira will speed it up to a one day cycle and the filter floss is plenty surface area, adding extra won’t hurt or harm in a frag tank

 

[Crabs McJones]

If I threw some rubble or snail shells from the dt into the nem bin would it speed up the cycle?

Rubble yes, snail shells likely not so much

 

[FishyDP]

For an AIO Seachem Pond Matrix are a bit larger than marble size and work similar to the blocks, lots of surface area in a compact form. They could potentially fit in your chambers in a mesh bag, which you can easily shake detritus from occasionally. I would personally want some type of large surface area media for bacteria if only using rubble, even if a small amount. Can get plenty for under $20 on Amazon.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

So the frag tank was set up on the 20th with sponge and rubble from the dt. On the 21st the tank tested positive .5ppm with api and 0 on nitrate and nitrites. Today the tank tested with the same results. Should I add a fish or something?

 

[brandon429]

dose your system up one more discernible increment using liquid ammonium chloride, slightly more than the current .5 ppm

retest in 24 hours see if it goes back to .5

if so it is cycled you are having bottom end reporting issues. the movement matters not the zero point

seneye never shows hovering ammonia in the tenths which is why Im always skeptical of holding readings....ammonia is either being used up or compounding, no way to just hold.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

dose your system up one more discernible increment using liquid ammonium chloride, slightly more than the current .5 ppm

retest in 24 hours see if it goes back to .5

if so it is cycled you are having bottom end reporting issues. the movement matters not the zero point

seneye never shows hovering ammonia in the tenths which is why Im always skeptical of holding readings....ammonia is either being used up or compounding, no way to just hold.

I do not have any liquid ammonia on hand and don’t feel like going to the lfs. Couldn’t I just throw some powdered food in the tank and test in a few days?

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Or 24 hours. I don’t feel like going out to buy something that I’ll use one time.

 

[brandon429]

its too variable to tell if it works. as its being degraded, the system should be using it right up quickly, ammonia is in high demand relative to your surface area. If this system wasn't cycled Id be 100% surprised. your main risk is using too low surface area but any decent use will make a basic start ok.

I don't think it needs a retest, but food is too messy in my opinion and has variable production rates.

if you are using surface area already known in qt tanks/frag tanks to carry a fish load there's no reason it wont work right now. this is exactly why Im writing about testless cycling nowadays, we all cannot agree on start dates using colorimetric readers.

we could use your starting tank data too in upcoming works...id change water, add a starting bioload lets track it. no reason it should die. if your tank was not cycled, or way too low in surface area, it'll die overnite but the water will become cloudy first.

if by two days not cloudy, not dead, testless cycle start no 117 confirmed

in rereading the post, it seems you didn't add any bottle bac which is ok, you seem to be using live materials. in my opinion this test comes down to whether or not you simply have enough surface area, what you've added as rubble is active. Im not sure if a sponge can take on cycle bac in 8 days that's not been tested in the hobby.

 

[Coastie Reefer]

What do you intend to grow in your frag tank? As long as there are no fish you don't need a ton of live rock, but I'd definitely want a couple pounds at least. Your end goal will determine what best practices to use.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

its too variable to tell if it works. as its being degraded, the system should be using it right up quickly, ammonia is in high demand relative to your surface area. If this system wasn't cycled Id be 100% surprised. your main risk is using too low surface area but any decent use will make a basic start ok.

I don't think it needs a retest, but food is too messy in my opinion and has variable production rates.

if you are using surface area already known in qt tanks/frag tanks to carry a fish load there's no reason it wont work right now. this is exactly why Im writing about testless cycling nowadays, we all cannot agree on start dates using colorimetric readers.

we could use your starting tank data too in upcoming works...id change water, add a starting bioload lets track it. no reason it should die. if your tank was not cycled, or way too low in surface area, it'll die overnite but the water will become cloudy first.

if by two days not cloudy, not dead, testless cycle start no 117 confirmed

I’ll probably throw a fish in this weekend. I was asking because I have over 30 zoa frags in the dt that I want out of my diamond goby’s way. 6 plates and 24 frags everywhere are starting to make his ocd go crazy lol. I’d love to put them in the frag tank but I don’t want to lose $600+ in zoas

 

[45ZoaGarden]

What do you intend to grow in your frag tank? As long as there are no fish you don't need a ton of live rock, but I'd definitely want a couple pounds at least. Your end goal will determine what best practices to use.

There will be a couple ponds of rubble in the nem bin. It’s just for zoas and nems.

 

[Coastie Reefer]

There will be a couple ponds of rubble in the nem bin. It’s just for zoas and nems.

Zoas should be fine... anemones might be different. If you have a couple pounds of (or 2 baseball sized) well established rock, you'll probably be fine though.

Edit: since it's an all in one, you could put ceramic media rings in a bag in the back chamber. That will add tons of biological filtration over time.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

Zoas should be fine... anemones might be different. If you have a couple pounds of (or 2 baseball sized) well established rock, you'll probably be fine though.

Edit: since it's an all in one, you could put ceramic media rings in a bag in the back chamber. That will add tons of biological filtration over time.

I was planing on that as well. Nems won’t go in there till the 6-8 month mark.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

So I tested the tank again and it read .5 again. Then I tested the dt and that read .5 ppm as well ;Rage. So the frag tank has been cycled for about a week. phosphates tested high (.9 ppm) so I added ceramic rings, and did a small water change. I also threw a 1p Mohawk frag in there to see how it does. Hopefully things are going well and I’ll be able to get the frags in there this weekend. The diamond goby is still mad as heck that his favorite spot is covered with frags LOL

 

[brandon429]

your clownfish would be dead, or in the least showing aerotaxis or chemotaxis (hovering at top struggling to breathe heavy opercular motion reddened) if any free ammonia was present. no corals open, and they'd all die overnite.

your cycle is done yay