Cycling A New Tank & Whats Going ON!

[siggy]

Is cycling a tank necessary with the available live options available ?
Just as I post this a member is unable to cycle after 2 months yet others can add fish in 2 days using the available live options at a LFS.

@Sistawolf
@SPS Junky

 

[USCG CWO]

Every tank cycles at some point regardless of "live options". When and how long depends on individual tank setups. You can speed up the process using "live options" but it will still cycle.

 

[clsanchez77]

Not enough information here, but yes cycling tank is necessary. Live animals (fish, corals, other inverts, people) live off nitrogen and waste nitrogen, in forms that end up as ammonia. The tank requires a healthy bacteria population to convert this ammonia to nitrite and then convert the nitrite to nitrate. This "cycle" usually takes about 30 days but there are ways to hasten it. The buildup of anaerobic bacteria to breakdown nitrate to nitrogen takes much longer.

Im not sure with what you mean by "live" options. Back in the day when I first started the hobby, we would stock the tank with damsels to cycle it. The damsels will survive the ammonia poisoning only to kill each other in a fight for territory. This method is now frowned on for various reasons.

My preferred method is to use Seachem Stability; their our other suitable competitors. Cycling cultured live rock is another method and the two need not be exclusive. There are also methods to dose ammonia, use dead shrimp, feed the empty tank, etc. There is no need for "live animals" to cycle anymore.

As far as the friends tank, how are you determining it is or is not cycled? If its because he can't keep fish, there are many other variables at play, so you can't assume its the tank not cycled. He should add a source of a known amount of ammonia and then test nitrite and nitrate daily to determine of the tank is cycled.

 

[siggy]

I understand the nitrogen cycle. But I was referring to kick starting the process with live bacteria a bag of live sand and a media to host the bacteria colony,
why turn the tank to pond scum then battle it back to health. That may be a little extreme but to give algae and other nuisance maladies a foothold seems unnecessary.

 

[spiraling]

I understand the nitrogen cycle. But I was referring to kick starting the process with live bacteria a bag of live sand and a media to host the bacteria colony,
why turn the tank to pond scum then battle it back to health. That may be a little extreme but to give algae and other nuisance maladies a foothold seems unnecessary.

many of those algae and other nuisance maladies are part of fully cycling the tank. Its not just to get rid of ammonia, but also to build up a series of bacteria and other organisms that balance the tank input.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/must-read-for-planning-new-setup-cure-cycling.294017/

 

[siggy]

Im not sure with what you mean by "live" options. Back in the day when I first started the hobby, we would stock the tank with damsels to cycle it. The damsels will survive the ammonia poisoning only to kill each other in a fight for territory. This method is now frowned on for various reasons.

Ever have Oscars ? what are they feeding them now?

 

[siggy]

This was what i was referring to yesterday about creating a toxic soup then starving it.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/must-read-for-planning-new-setup-cure-cycling.294017/[/QUOTE]

From the link you provided:
Perhaps the aquarist has purchased some snails by now, and maybe a fish. All too often, the fish dies, because while it may not have ammonia to contend with, it has water filled with chemicals we can't and don't test for.
Referring to decomposed mater

 

[siggy]

https://www.reef2reef.com/members/moseley75.79931/
this is the member's post I was referring to, now he's dosing a alcohol based fuel to bypass the food method and go straight to a ammonia process at the end of a traditional cycle ?

 

[Annahra]

Depends a lot on your rock and sand choices too. I started with REALLY live rock and bagged live sand so my tank cycled in maybe three days with minimal spikes (.25 max), but I've also had to work harder to clear up the detritus from die off. Tanks starting with dry rock and bare bottoms are going to take longer regardless of supplements, and bare bottom or no sand, dry rock, no supplement tanks will be 4-6 weeks easily.

I think people sometimes screw up their cycle too by not having enough rock or filter media or messing with things too much early on (like adding ammonia remover).

 

[siggy]

I'm at the end of my patience with this tank.

I have a 10 gal that I wanted to use as a qt/hospital for fish but it just won't cycle. I've added Dr Tim's three times over the last two months and it stays at the exact same ammonia level. Zero nitrites and zero nitrates.
I raised this tank to ammonia level of 2 per all the suggestions for fishless cycle and nothing happened for three weeks. I did 50% water changes which dropped it to 0.8 ammonia and that is where it has stayed for the last month. This is a bare bottom tank w/ HOB filter. Filter has a sponge and some ceramic disks. I added some dry rubble to give the bacteria more places to grow. There are two plastic aquarium decorations in there too. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[siggy]

@Annahra , thats the point, with so many options available is it necessary to watch grass grow then mow it down.

 

[Annahra]

@Annahra , thats the point, with so many options available is it necessary to watch grass grow then mow it down.

Well, some of my rocks came with the grass, so... [emoji23]

But yeah, if you mean why would anyone try and do a traditional cycle anymore I certainly don't know. Other than to avoid the fish police who are going to tell you that you can't cycle a tank quickly and all of your livestock is doomed. This hobby is incredibly polarizing.

 

[beaslbob]

IMHO cycling the tank is not only necessary but unavoidable.

What you can avoid is the ammonia, nitrite spikes by using plant life like algae to consume any ammonia missed by the aerobic bacteria.

my .02

 

[siggy]

@Annahra nice shade of pink, a lot of ladies pay to get that color

 

[Annahra]

@Annahra nice shade of pink, a lot of ladies pay to get that color

I like it even more now that the algae is confined to the sump! Except for that patch my urchin wears as a hat... For some reason the turbo snails will clean each other but not him.

 

[Brew12]

In my opinion, the term "cycle" is horribly overused. It originally comes from establishing enough bacteria to support the nitrogen cycle for a reasonably stocked tank. Now people use it to describe all of the processes that a tank goes through as it matures.
You can get a tank ready for fish immediately if you have properly seeded live rock or add enough bacteria from bottled products. You can also do it by adding enough algae to consume the ammonia, but that is a different topic. This part of cycling is almost completely unrelated for the rest of what happens that people refer to as cycling.
For instance, your rock may leach phosphates causing algae growth. Your sand and rocks may have excess silicates which will fuel a diatom bloom. The rock and sand will interact with the sea water causing all sorts of chemical equilibriums to shift and can be seen in Alk, pH, and other trace elements. These other events are both important and inevitable, but they really have little to do with what the original term "cycle" initially referenced.

 

[spiraling]

Referring to decomposed mater

I didn't assume this meant decomposed matter, but rather chemicals from the tank and equipment that is leaching into the water, as well as toxins released by some of the microorganisms that are growing there.

I'm curious what you mean by "live option". I did use dr tims to help my cycle on a new tank with only dry rock. Live rock from another tank would provide much more to start with, but also may provide pests. A tank started with all live rock from the ocean or healthy tank will bypass much of the bacterial blooms and other algae that grow compared to starting a tank "dry" because these organisms already exist in some balance.

 

[siggy]

IMHO cycling the tank is not only necessary but unavoidable.
What you can avoid is the ammonia, nitrite spikes by using plant life like algae to consume any ammonia missed by the aerobic bacteria.
my .02

ia
I understand the full cycle is going to occur one way or another whether it be prolonged or abrupt. My opinion which amounts to almost nil amongst most here is why do a caustic cycle in all its glory when you are going to use the best the hobby has to offer anyway and then clean up the mess.

I used marine-pur and live rock and live bacteria to cycle in a few days, no algae for ammonia absorption and no algae outbreaks-in fact i learned that i had to start overfeeding to get nutrients into the tank....... did i just trip on something?

What I had to accomplish was a suitable Tank at all times for the wife to allow me to keep it in the living room Tho I will probably still end up in the basement
but a toxic swamp would have rendered me to the curb while i was still at work.

 

[siggy]

Thanks @Brew12 I didn't know how to say it

borrow this for awhile ?
Don't blame the questions, they are innocent. I'm the dumb one!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

he tank to pond scum then battle it back to health.

@Annahra , thats the point, with so many options available is it necessary to watch grass grow then mow it down.

In my opinion, the term "cycle" is horribly overused.

^^^^^^^ This here.
The cycle is considered the swamp, but its not. The swamp comes from not feeding responsibly, adding livestock too quickly, not QTing the corals and allowing pest algae in.
Depending on where you get the rock, well say dry, it will add elements other tank ammoina that spur growth. Nothing causes alge. only introduction. If at times is seems to appear out of nowhere , well, it was still introduced.

fwiw , my pet peeve is "mini cycle". stirring up funk that feeds the algae and cyanos already in the tank has nothing to do with the nitrogen cycle.