Cycling a qt

[jeff williams]

I'm having zero luck getting my qt to cycle! My display tank is new and I do not have any seeded media to add to my qt tank so I tried dr Tims one and only nitrifying bacteria and his ammonia to cycle my qt it's 10 gallon HOB,heater,some glass marbles on bottom ( suggested by dr Tim to help) and few pieces of pvc. I dosed with ammonia and followed the directions on the bacteria exactly with no results. I've tried 3x's now to cycle with no results all lasting approximately 2weeks, I know that's not long but dr Tim claims it should have cycled in this time.
Water parameters SG 1.024 ph 7.8-8.0 ammonia dosed to 2 ppm nitrite 0 nitrate 20-30 ppm due to tap water used kordon's novaqua it only dechlorinates dose not bind ammonia temp 78. Any suggestions?
Also I do wanna add I mixed my water with a pump that's made of cast aluminum and plastic if there was aluminum leached into my water would this affect the tank?

 

[sbash]

Sounds like there is very little surface area for the nitrifying bacteria to grow on.

What do you mean it is a 10 gallon HOB? The tank hangs on something, or you have an HOB filter?

Either way, get a large (rated for say 30 gallon) HOB filter for it, put in some rock rubble or some of that fancy bio-media the LFSs sell. Essentially, you cannot cycle a tank with nothing for the bacteria to grow on. For example, I keep a 30 gallon, fully cycled tank (rocks, sand, powerheads, air stone and heater) for QT. I also have a bare tank like yours as a hospital tank, it never cycles so it is a funny balance of water changes and chemistry checks to keep it stable (and "Prime").

Is this aluminum pump of your submersable? Does the aluminum actually make contact with the water? If so, who knows what is being leached into the tank. Salt corrodes aluminum very quickly, and most aluminums are allows, so who knows what else is in it...

 

[jeff williams]

Sounds like there is very little surface area for the nitrifying bacteria to grow on.

What do you mean it is a 10 gallon HOB? The tank hangs on something, or you have an HOB filter?

Either way, get a large (rated for say 30 gallon) HOB filter for it, put in some rock rubble or some of that fancy bio-media the LFSs sell. Essentially, you cannot cycle a tank with nothing for the bacteria to grow on. For example, I keep a 30 gallon, fully cycled tank (rocks, sand, powerheads, air stone and heater) for QT. I also have a bare tank like yours as a hospital tank, it never cycles so it is a funny balance of water changes and chemistry checks to keep it stable (and "Prime").

Is this aluminum pump of your submersable? Does the aluminum actually make contact with the water? If so, who knows what is being leached into the tank. Salt corrodes aluminum very quickly, and most aluminums are allows, so who knows what else is in it...

Ya it's a 10 gallon tank with an HOB filter. I used marbles per dr Tims advice to add more surface area I was concerned about using sand and rock because of medications. The pump is submersible it's a painted aluminum housing I really didn't think it would cause a problem but I'm second guessing myself now. I guess I'll add sand and try again do you think the bacteria that have been added will be dead now and I'll have to redose? And finally your hospital tank you just fill it up and keep ammonia under control with water changes or use prime?

 

[johnsamm7]

I would just keep adding ammonia from dr tims until u start seing results it will eventually cycle I used the same method on my 30 long it cycled in about 7 days

 

[jeff williams]

I would just keep adding ammonia from dr tims until u start seing results it will eventually cycle I used the same method on my 30 long it cycled in about 7 days

Was your tank bare bottom or did you have any type of bio media in the tank or filter

 

[johnsamm7]

I had live rock and live sand in mine it was my DT though was not a quarantine

 

[tutmatt3]

Well 2x things to consider (since I'm in a similiar boat to you is) (keep in mind this is only advice I read over and over. I would highly encourage additional research as I am too much of a newb)

1) Adding in rock/sand can have a negative effect when medicating, since it will absorb medicine, and you will have to work around that to get your fish medicated properly. It also means you cannot put that rock back into DT unless drastic measures are made to make it DT ready again
2) A lot of medicine will interfere with the bacteria cycle, so many times it is recommended not to cycle a QT, as that nitrifying bacteria could disappear anyway. Ammonia is controlled with more frequent water changes (need to pre-treat the water with medicine if you are already medicating, to replace it)
3) It is also highly recommended not to use tap water, for either your QT/DT.

My advice - get an RODI unit. This is what I have, its cheap(er) & easy to use. Twists onto my hose.
https://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Life...8&qid=1485485336&sr=8-1&keywords=rodi+aquatic

It may be a bit pricey at first, but if you're already at the point of QT'ing so they're healthy, then you of course would want them to have healthy water, right?
I've read RO is not enough, because DI extremely limits phosphates form entering your system.

Just like with coffee. Since coffee is 90% water, you want to use high quality water. Since your aquarium/fish/coral are once again 90% water, that is one of the main ingredients you want top notch.

Just my .02, not trying to be pushy!

 

[johnsamm7]

Some people also just but the qt tank and equipment and l ave it empty until the need it and work it as an emergency qt when there is an issue or new addition you could set it up around water change time and use ur dt water to start things off that's of course if u don't want an always running qt. Pluses ad minuses to every situation

 

[johnsamm7]

And I would deff second the ro/di unit I was using just r/o water and I always had algae I just bought the 75 gpd value plus rodi unit from BRS and it's amazing even water color Best Buy I have made yet algae has also cut down

 

[Maritimer]

Ya it's a 10 gallon tank with an HOB filter. I used marbles per dr Tims advice to add more surface area I was concerned about using sand and rock because of medications. The pump is submersible it's a painted aluminum housing I really didn't think it would cause a problem but I'm second guessing myself now. I guess I'll add sand and try again do you think the bacteria that have been added will be dead now and I'll have to redose? And finally your hospital tank you just fill it up and keep ammonia under control with water changes or use prime?

Hi, Jeff!

Not sure that aluminum pump is going to be a great idea in salt water - seawater isn't called "the universal solvent" for nothing!

I wouldn't add sand and liverock to a quarantine tank, as it will absorb copper and some other meds, should you need them, making it difficult to maintain stable levels of medication. What kind of media do you have in your HOB? I use an Aquaclear on my QT, with a sponge for particulate material and "ceramic noodles" for bacteria to colonize. Using that media, I haven't had a lot of trouble with ammonia. (Marbles don't really offer very much surface area - the ceramic noodles have crevices and spaces throughout, and though they'd seem pretty tiny to us, for bacteria they're like apartment complexes.) There will certainly be some living bacteria on surfaces in your tank - on the glass, the marbles, the inside of the HOB, and whatever filter media you're using in it. That bacteria will grow to fill the available surface area and consume the available food, which is why people "ghost feed" their tanks, or add a small supermarket shrimp to produce ammonia in the tank, or dose Dr. Tim's ammonia as you mentioned.

In a quarantine tank, ammonia is best measured with one of the Seachem ammonia "badges", and controlled with bacteria and water changes - but _don't_ use Prime if you might be using medications. Prime and meds are not a good combination . . .

~Bruce

 

[domination2580]

Hi, Jeff!

Not sure that aluminum pump is going to be a great idea in salt water - seawater isn't called "the universal solvent" for nothing!

I wouldn't add sand and liverock to a quarantine tank, as it will absorb copper and some other meds, should you need them, making it difficult to maintain stable levels of medication. What kind of media do you have in your HOB? I use an Aquaclear on my QT, with a sponge for particulate material and "ceramic noodles" for bacteria to colonize. Using that media, I haven't had a lot of trouble with ammonia. (Marbles don't really offer very much surface area - the ceramic noodles have crevices and spaces throughout, and though they'd seem pretty tiny to us, for bacteria they're like apartment complexes.) There will certainly be some living bacteria on surfaces in your tank - on the glass, the marbles, the inside of the HOB, and whatever filter media you're using in it. That bacteria will grow to fill the available surface area and consume the available food, which is why people "ghost feed" their tanks, or add a small supermarket shrimp to produce ammonia in the tank, or dose Dr. Tim's ammonia as you mentioned.

In a quarantine tank, ammonia is best measured with one of the Seachem ammonia "badges", and controlled with bacteria and water changes - but _don't_ use Prime if you might be using medications. Prime and meds are not a good combination . . .

~Bruce

What's the reasoning about not using prime with meds?

 

[Maritimer]

Specifically with copper, Prime can change the copper to a more toxic form. (Copper is already somewhat toxic, but used correctly, will kill parasites without killing the fish.)

~Bruce