Cycling a tank

[colincolin747]

I had an issue before with test kit reading 1.5 for salifert for 4 days in a row and using Dr Tims one and only. (May have accidentally dosed more than needed ammonia as per instruction of Dr Tims schedule). I used an API ammonia test kit which read 8ppm (assuming it is including both ammonia and ammonium). API pH reading is 8.2/8.4. Temp is 25.1 degrees Celsius. Total tank volume is 200L including sump

Yesterday:
I contacted local reef stores for advice and all recommended a water change and slowly add more Dr Tims back in. Did a 40% water change without touching any rock or substrate. Dosed 50% of one and only after water change. I wanted to get a Red Sea Ammonia test kit, but all sold out. Nitrate levels were at 30ppm before water change.

Current day (after water change):
Dose a bit of one and only in the morning. Tested everything at night. My ammonia is still 1.5ppm using two different salifert test kits. API test kit still reads 8ppm as well. My nitrites have increased slowly and has remained at 1ppm for past 2 days. Nitrates on the other hand have flown up to 50ppm (tested twice to make sure).

What should I do?

 

[Bryn]

Welcome to R2R. Let me start by saying not to worry about what is going on, cycling a tank is one of the first things people do, and it takes what seems to be a longtime.

We are interested in color change more than what the numbers are. I like the API Ammonia key as it is cheap and works, but I'm just looking for color change.

When did you setup the tank, how long has it been cycling?

Here is a diagram for a non bacteria added cycle.

 

[swiss1939]

Leave it alone and let it remove the ammonia. Don't pay attention to any timeframes as each tank is different. Look for presence or absence of ammonia and nitrites, not how much (unless ammonia is way overdosed). Wait for them to be present in nitrate and nitrite, and then be absent in both. This means its gone through the full cycle at least once, then dose again and wait for it to go through again. This video I found helpful:

Dr. Tim's tips for speeding up fishless cycles

Just came across this youtube video of a talk Dr. Tim gave last year specifically on nitrifying bacteria and how to speed up your cycle by setting up your tank to ideal conditions for the nitrifying bacteria you are trying to jumpstart. I'm adding it here for anyone else who is just starting...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[colincolin747]

Welcome to R2R. Let me start by saying not to worry about what is going on, cycling a tank is one of the first things people do, and it takes what seems to be a longtime.

We are interested in color change more than what the numbers are. I like the API Ammonia key as it is cheap and works, but I'm just looking for color change.

When did you setup the tank, how long has it been cycling?

Here is a diagram for a non bacteria added cycle.

Thank you very much for your reply. My cycle is on day 9 now. Based on the graph you have, should I be water changing as my nitrates are at 50 or just wait it out? And if my ammonia and nitrates drop to 0, I should dose again right away and see 24hours later OR water change then dose? When it is fully cycled, should I do a 70% water change (I assume my nitrates would be off the charts by this time) before adding fish?

 

[Bryn]

Keep your lights off, and wait the nitrates out. Your Nitrates will not drop to zero, but your Nitrites will, but lets not worry about the Nitrites right now. As I mentioned you are looking for a color change in Ammonia.

As you have used Dr. Tims One and Only, your tank should be well ahead of the diagram up above. I'm guessing that using the API test for Ammonia the color is dark green, so no needed to dose any more Ammonia for now.

Wait for the Ammonia color to start getting lighter, moving towards the yellow color, then you can be confident the cycle is moving. Once it is light yellow you can dose the Dr. Tims Ammonia to 2ppm. I like to check the ammonia after dosing, and then check the ammonia after 24 hours. If the color has returned back to yellow within 24, you are basically done.

It is a game of hurry up and wait.

 

[colincolin747]

Leave it alone and let it remove the ammonia. Don't pay attention to any timeframes as each tank is different. Look for presence or absence of ammonia and nitrites, not how much (unless ammonia is way overdosed). Wait for them to be present in nitrate and nitrite, and then be absent in both. This means its gone through the full cycle at least once, then dose again and wait for it to go through again. This video I found helpful:

Dr. Tim's tips for speeding up fishless cycles

Just came across this youtube video of a talk Dr. Tim gave last year specifically on nitrifying bacteria and how to speed up your cycle by setting up your tank to ideal conditions for the nitrifying bacteria you are trying to jumpstart. I'm adding it here for anyone else who is just starting...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you! I will turn up the heat and maybe take a few litres of water out and replace with fresh rodi water I have to drop the salinity.

 

[Bryn]

Thank you! I will turn up the heat and maybe take a few litres of water out and replace with fresh rodi water I have to drop the salinity.

If you have no fish or corals, or inverts, yes you can increase the heat. I set it at about 84.

 

[colincolin747]

If you have no fish or corals, or inverts, yes you can increase the heat. I set it at about 84.

Did another test. API still reading 8ppm. Salifert still reading 1.5ppm. Nitrite reading 2ppm. Nitrate seem to be at 75ppm (hard to tell, darker than 50 but lighter than 100). Have two heaters slowly cranking up temp to 85. Should I do like a 20L water change and put rodi water in to drop the salinity?

 

[Bryn]

Did another test. API still reading 8ppm. Salifert still reading 1.5ppm. Nitrite reading 2ppm. Nitrate seem to be at 75ppm (hard to tell, darker than 50 but lighter than 100). Have two heaters slowly cranking up temp to 85. Should I do like a 20L water change and put rodi water in to drop the salinity?

Just keep the lights off, no need for lights anyway with nothing in there, and let it run. Do not add any ammonia, or anything else to the tank. Lets check it in the morning if you can, or late afternoon. It is a case of Hurry Up and Wait.

 

[swiss1939]

Another forum member suggested to me yesterday regarding similar issue I had where I was getting readings darker than the highest reading on my test kit. If you are getting readings above the highest potential color chip, then do a test by diluting the tank water 50/50 with RODI water and you should get a color result for that test within the test range of colors. So if your 50/50 diluted result shows the correct color for 10, then your result is 20 because you cut it in half. This should help with full strength results that are between two colors that are hard to read, or if it is darker than the highest result available for your kit.

 

[colincolin747]

Another forum member suggested to me yesterday regarding similar issue I had where I was getting readings darker than the highest reading on my test kit. If you are getting readings above the highest potential color chip, then do a test by diluting the tank water 50/50 with RODI water and you should get a color result for that test within the test range of colors. So if your 50/50 diluted result shows the correct color for 10, then your result is 20 because you cut it in half. This should help with full strength results that are between two colors that are hard to read, or if it is darker than the highest result available for your kit.

I diluted both salifert nitrate and ammonia test with rodi water 50/50. Nitrate read 35ish ppm. Ammonia is confusing cause in different lighting it shows either 1ppm or 1.5ppm. API showing a 3/3.5ppm.

 

[swiss1939]

So double what it matches in those diluted tests and that's what you got. To me it looks like you got 100, 2, 3, 4 for each of those photos.

 

[colincolin747]

Just keep the lights off, no need for lights anyway with nothing in there, and let it run. Do not add any ammonia, or anything else to the tank. Lets check it in the morning if you can, or late afternoon. It is a case of Hurry Up and Wait.

After following the tip on increasing the heat, I tested just then using both API and Salifert test kits. API ammonia is at 2ppm. Salifert ammonia is at 1ppm. Salifert Nitrite dropped to 1ppm. But Nitrates at 100% at 100ppm. I am hoping both ammonia and nitrite drop to zero tomorrow so I can dose to 2ppm ammonium again and check Thursday. When my cycle is over, do you recommend a huge 90% water change or should I do 3/4x 50% back to back 3 hours apart?

 

[Bryn]

Brilliant news. Heat might have helped, or we where on our way down anyway, dose not matter, ammonia is moving in the right direction. Never did get on with the Salifert Ammonia test kit.

Truthfully, keep the lights off, and you can do a water change when you get time. One large water change is going to be better. You will not lose too much bacteria in the water column as most will be attached to rock, glass and other material.

Congrats, you are almost done. Post some pictures of the tank.

 

[colincolin747]

T

Brilliant news. Heat might have helped, or we where on our way down anyway, dose not matter, ammonia is moving in the right direction. Never did get on with the Salifert Ammonia test kit.

Truthfully, keep the lights off, and you can do a water change when you get time. One large water change is going to be better. You will not lose too much bacteria in the water column as most will be attached to rock, glass and other material.

Congrats, you are almost done. Post some pictures of the tank.

Tested the tank this morning. API shows 0.25/0.5ppm ammonia. Salifert showed 0.15 ppm. Salifert nitrites showed 0.1ppm. Is it a good time to dose ammonia back to 2ppm?

 

[Bryn]

T

Tested the tank this morning. API shows 0.25/0.5ppm ammonia. Salifert showed 0.15 ppm. Salifert nitrites showed 0.1ppm. Is it a good time to dose ammonia back to 2ppm?

You can dose it back to 2ppm, and if cleared within 24hrs you are golden.