cycling bare bottom dry rock

[David Abbott]

#reef squad, Is there anyone that has experience in cycling bare bottom 150G tanks, willing to mentor me through this process?? So many different opinion's don't know who to listen to.

 

[brandon429]

Easy, heres testless options:

buy two different brands of bottle bac specifically meant for cycling per their label, not for cleaning.

input the amount on directions from both bottles into tank


add two pinches of well ground up flake food


wait fifteen days, change some water for new, you’re cycled and can’t fail and can’t be half cycled it’s simply done and no testing was needed.

if you aren’t able to get two bottles do one, it’ll still work the same.


if you aren’t able to get any water bac, then fill the tank with saltwater and circulate it for sixty days and it’ll still be cycled just the same. Source for claims, any cycling chart, recent seneye tests on these type setups.

It’s not possible to fail in cycling. We will just adjust your wait times relative to the inputs you get back to us about


If someone tells you a reef tank cycle can stall or fail, they’re selling the fix for the claim too.


Even if you skip my method and do nine weeks of any combination using api testing until it’s zero, all these ends are the very same. Reef tank cycling is exactly this easy.


you should poll the team for fish disease prep options though. Getting the tank to control ammonia is terribly easy, not losing all your fish by November to velvet sure is not.

 

[David Abbott]

And yet another angle, Set it and forget it, this might just be the most basic and simple information I have received!! So no extra bio media or rock in the sump just the rock in the tank itself, no filter socks, no bio bricks, no shrimp every 3 days. enclosed is a pic of what I want as far as an aquascape. bare bottom, no sand.

 

[duffstanton]

Would you mind giving us a little more information on a few things?
1. What type of filtration are you running?
2. Do you have any fish or coral in the tank?
3. Do you have access to any "Established" rock or media bricks?
4. What process did you take to start up the tank?
5. Do you have a small tank for QT of fish?

I am on my second attempt at this process. My first attempt I made a lot of mistakes and the best way I can sum up those mistakes is.... I thought I could "control" nature. There is absolutely no substitute for time. As an example, I would compare it to making wine, it takes time. At the time I didn't truly understand the different types of filtration and what they were designed to do nor did I understand that the one of the most important filters in the tank is the "live" rock.

Second, Nature hates a void. Considering that the dry rock is void of any life its going to fill up with all kinds of life. I didn't understand that its my job to create an environment that "encourages" the growth of the desirable organisms I want in the tank.

I am about 6 months into the process on my second attempt and its going much better.
This is a sloooow process that will take time. 12-18 months is what I am being told until it is "established".

As far as cycling on this second attempt the only thing I did was add Microbactor 7 and two clown fish day one. I did pre soak a biobrick with Microbactor 7 as well per the instructions and put that in my sump. I didn't loose either of the clowns.

FYI My tank has the following equipment for filtration:
Stage 1: Filter Socks (Changed every two days)
Stage 2: Refugium (Started this about 2 months after initially setting up the tank)
Stage 3: Skimmer and Bio Bricks (3 of them)
Stage 4: Return pump to UV Sterilizer. I didn't install this until 3 months in.

 

[Garf]

Brandon is referring to the ammonia cycle to make it safe for fish. Barebottom dryrock tanks are prone to invasion from other things. Mine is only a 60gallon but is a BBDR, you can look at my build thread obviously.

 

[David Abbott]

Easy, heres testless options:

buy two different brands of bottle bac specifically meant for cycling per their label, not for cleaning.

input the amount on directions from both bottles into tank


add two pinches of well ground up flake food


wait fifteen days, change some water for new, you’re cycled and can’t fail and can’t be half cycled it’s simply done and no testing was needed.

if you aren’t able to get two bottles do one, it’ll still work the same.


if you aren’t able to get any water bac, then fill the tank with saltwater and circulate it for sixty days and it’ll still be cycled just the same. Source for claims, any cycling chart, recent seneye tests on these type setups.

It’s not possible to fail in cycling. We will just adjust your wait times relative to the inputs you get back to us about


If someone tells you a reef tank cycle can stall or fail, they’re selling the fix for the claim too.


Even if you skip my method and do nine weeks of any combination using api testing until it’s zero, all these ends are the very same. Reef tank cycling is exactly this easy.


you should poll the team for fish disease prep options though. Getting the tank to control ammonia is terribly easy, not losing all your fish by November to velvet sure is not.

 

[brandon429]

Here’s the way extra surface area works in reefing: only your rocks are required for base filtration and they’ll run the reef.


that means the bricks, socks, sandbed, bioballs, marine pure blocks are harmless to run but dont change the fact rocks alone will run the final intended bioload. We stack in those items because our peers do, that’s the reason.

we can search many bare setups like rocks only that run full sps and fish loads, because rocks are enough. Having fifty times the needed surface area present and cycled is an option but it’s not core or critical.

your issue isn’t a lack of bacteria it’s lack of biodiversity and getting dinos which makes you hate reefing a good while.

if you will take time to consider this work thread you will never doubt surface area again for the rest of your reefing.


specifically, any reef tank on the board can post here and we can (and have been) stripping their entire system down to rocks only for years, same bioload, and nothing recycles due to this hidden rule in reefing (that we are all grossly beyond covered in surface area in common display tanks)


why would anyone do this to a reef tank u might wonder? Because it’s the only safe way to move reefs to new homes. Or to a convention. Or to whip one into shape like it’s a participant in a teen boot camp, cyano misbehavers etc

any way you slice it, were the rule untrue all these reefs would be dead:

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

the entire thread, all those people’s money, is ran by the simple fact if you own a reef tank you are five times overdone on surface area so we already know we can strip it 5x less than what it is and all your fish will be fine.


due to that, it doesn’t matter if you cycle with them or not

 

[brandon429]

To help in dinos, add forty pounds of already live rock specifically from another reef tank to your tank on day one.

at that point your entire system is ready and skip cycled. Left out that option above, skipping the entire cycle by using forty pounds of already cycled rock.


notice a trend here: we have already set your ready/can start date for any arrangement and your reef isn’t even assembled yet. Today’s cycling is assertive and predictive, it’s how they run massive reef conventions and get everyone ready by Friday. To sell us cycle un stalling products he he


we already know ahead of time when any given arrangement will be cycled. Were that not true, I could not have strolled the aisles at aquashella dallas in 2018. When I walked through rows of two hundred gallon reef tanks, two hundred pounds of live rock, eighteen fish, fifty thousand in corals I knew for the twentieth year in a row forum cyclers are getting taken for $

 

[David Abbott]

Ok, thats the most concise and to the point and simple info to understand i have heard!!!! And yes you are right BRS is selling the cure for failure. Although they have some very good content, they are in the retail business

 

[Garf]

Ok, thats the most concise and to the point and simple info to understand i have heard!!!! And yes you are right BRS is selling the cure for failure. Although they have some very good content, they are in the retail business

Do you think they invented using dry rock?

https://www.garf.org/aragocrete.html

 

[brandon429]

And also I hate to down them they’re a good company.

if you were to poll other places withholding the links above nobody would agree any of it was possible. I don’t fault anyone for applying the safe method which is dose ample redundants, wait a redundant amount of time after dosing them, proceed slowly

this always works too.


but in the realm of web nerds we found ways to undercut the rules and it works, it’s cycle hacking. So all these folks really are selling cures for a ghost condition but they mean well it’s not via intent


not any form of cycling article conveys this info.

on a similar note I’d like to play roms on my switch. I can’t consult magazine articles for that but I know where the right nerds hang out online

 

[David Abbott]

To help in dinos, add forty pounds of already live rock specifically from another reef tank to your tank on day one.

at that point your entire system is ready and skip cycled. Left out that option above, skipping the entire cycle by using forty pounds of already cycled rock.


notice a trend here: we have already set your ready/can start date for any arrangement and your reef isn’t even assembled yet. Today’s cycling is assertive and predictive, it’s how they run massive reef conventions and get everyone ready by Friday. To sell us cycle un stalling products he he


we already know ahead of time when any given arrangement will be cycled. Were that not true, I could not have strolled the aisles at aquashella dallas in 2018. When I walked through rows of two hundred gallon reef tanks, two hundred pounds of live rock, eighteen fish, fifty thousand in corals I knew for the twentieth year in a row forum cyclers are getting taken for $

I am 12 hours away from a aquairum store here in Panama. Almost everything i've purchased come from BRS. usually takes a min. of 2 1/2 weeks to get it here. The 60 day "do nothing" cycling seems the cheapest way for me to go. Sounds like you've been around the Block a time or two!!! and am very fortunate for such honest info!!

 

[brandon429]

Hey wanted to show a proof post for that claim:

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Did the online calc indicate to use one mil in the tank for your gallonage

www.reef2reef.com

see post# 1938
His rocks sat in water for sixty days.

toss a couple pinches of mere flake food for common fish and it won’t even take sixty days.

lol two thousand posts investigating water bac. we care, greatly

 

[brandon429]

If you ever wondered if bottle bac was useful, that thread shows it.

 

[brandon429]

lol right now on tv an ad for the shark vac

in bold words and scrolling cartoons of water bears they loudly exclaim that other vacuums eject allergens, pollen, bugs, mites, dander, pet hair, human skin cells

commercial says it right plainly.

and in doing so they just listed the reasons we don’t have to do anything but wait ~60 days for self cycling. What do all those components degrade into in water? trace ammonia (for the bacterial action segments, wet dead bugs get turned into ammonia and other byproducts by bacteria in water) + carbon, et al

pretty neat, thanks shark vac for helping reefers cycle up phree.

merely where you live every wind storm inoculates your tank and your iced tea with actual oceanic nitrifiers, aerosol vectoring. Adding one liter of ocean water directly is the same as dosing anyone’s fourteen dollar cycling bac mixture.

 

[David Abbott]

So at the end of 60 days, or less if I add Dr. Tim's 1 and only my tank should be ready for fish. This is so simple I think my dog could do it LOL. I saw Melereef guy trying to sell this product, probably looking for a sponsor

 

[brandon429]

One tuneup: the reason anyone would choose the wait mode 60 days was to get out of buying bottled bac. To do it free.

if you want to use dr Tim’s in any combo use either the first or second option on post 2, that was fifteen days stated. Or you can sub in ocean water + 15 days wait, that too is free.

 

[David Abbott]

You mean water directly from the ocean???? I live about 10 min, away

 

[David Abbott]

I have heard the term "velvet" what is that??

 

[brandon429]

It's fish disease see this forum

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

If we cycle a dry system and add fish without the preparations shown there they'll die from disease

All those help posts show the rate of expected disease in the hobby and best means to prevent