Cycling barebottom 100G is taking over 2 months

[Muffin87]

I started cycling a dry rock barebottom 100G tank over 2 months ago and it still hasn't finished. This is the third tank I've cycled, and it's always taking me at least a month.

When I started the cycle two months ago, I added Brightwell's Microbacter Start XLM and QuikCycl (Ammonia Source).
At the end of the first month I had:

• Ammonia: 2 ppm (colour-wise)
• Nitrite: 0 to 0.1 ppm
• Nitrate: 2 ppm

Three weeks ago, I added Doctor Tim's One & Only (European batch by Aquarium Systems). I added to the sump sand contained in some big containers to help. A week later, test results were unchanged.

Last week, I started dosing daily double doses of Aquaforest Bio S and added

• Prodibio BioDigest Pro10 - 1 vial, enough for up to 160G
• Aquaforest Life Bio Fil - pre-cycled biomedia enough for 100G

Finally NOW, I'm starting to get nitrite.

• Ammonia: 1.2 ppm to 2 ppm
• Nitrite: 1 to 2 ppm
• Nitrate: 4.5 ppm

In the meanwhile, four small patches of chrysophytes have grown over bits of the rocks. Hopefully they aren't stealing any ammonia/PO4 needed for the cycle.

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong, and why it's always taking me ages to cycle tanks, and multiple bacterial product ($$$)?
Anything I can do to speed the cycling of this specific tank?

Thanks! I'm just perplexed as to why I'm the only one unable to ride the wave of 1 week cycles with bacterial products.

Test kit used: Red Sea Ammonia, Salifert Nitrite, Hanna Low Range Nitrate.
Temperature: 77F - Salinity: 18-20 ppt (as suggested by Dr Tims)

 

[Anemone_Fanatic]

I would get a few pounds of gulf live rock, or established rock from another tank to add bacteria. Bottled bacteria doesn't really work all that well. Actually, 2/3 months is pretty typical for some tanks, so I wouldn't be very worried. I hope that this helps!

 

[MrGisonni]

Sounds about right for a dry rock bare bottom setup. My 30 gallon took almost that long. I started it with dr tims and brightwell bacteria.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

And? Lol. 90 days.
D

 

[Muffin87]

It's been 90 days indeed.

Ammonia: 1.2 or slightly higher.
Nitrite: between 2 and 4

I've been dosing double dose of Aquaforest Bio S everyday...
I keep the tank at 76F because of the energy crisis in Europe.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

It's been 90 days indeed.

Ammonia: 1.2 or slightly higher.
Nitrite: between 2 and 4

I've been dosing double dose of Aquaforest Bio S everyday...
I keep the tank at 76F because of the energy crisis in Europe.

I know it's frustrating and there's no reason you should have to add live ocean rock but that's what I'd do since that way I could be certain that there was already living nitrifying bacteria to get the cycle going...plus the biodiversity you'd get would really help in the long run...(btw, this might be a dumb question but just checking, you're not running a UV right now are you? Because that could kill the bottled bacteria before they have a chance to settle and colonize the rock)

 

[bruno3047]

The explanation given by Dr. Tim is that the lack of sand is a big reason why bare bottom tanks take so long to cycle. Sand provides more surface area for bacteria to populate than any other material in your tank including the rocks, the walls of the tank etc. So with no sand, you can expect a much longer cycle time. Here’s the video where he mentions this briefly towards the end.

 

[Hot2na]

Increase flow.

 

[Garf]

It's been 90 days indeed.

Ammonia: 1.2 or slightly higher.
Nitrite: between 2 and 4

I've been dosing double dose of Aquaforest Bio S everyday...
I keep the tank at 76F because of the energy crisis in Europe.

Looking on the bright side, now it seems to be munching on the ammonia at least. I would add a small pinch of fish flakes to add some phosphate (unless you’ve got some TriSodium Phosphate at hand) which aids the nitrite to nitrate phase. Soon as your ammonia is nearly gone, you are golden.

 

[Dan_P]

I started cycling a dry rock barebottom 100G tank over 2 months ago and it still hasn't finished. This is the third tank I've cycled, and it's always taking me at least a month.

When I started the cycle two months ago, I added Brightwell's Microbacter Start XLM and QuikCycl (Ammonia Source).
At the end of the first month I had:

• Ammonia: 2 ppm (colour-wise)
• Nitrite: 0 to 0.1 ppm
• Nitrate: 2 ppm

Three weeks ago, I added Doctor Tim's One & Only (European batch by Aquarium Systems). I added to the sump sand contained in some big containers to help. A week later, test results were unchanged.

Last week, I started dosing daily double doses of Aquaforest Bio S and added

• Prodibio BioDigest Pro10 - 1 vial, enough for up to 160G
• Aquaforest Life Bio Fil - pre-cycled biomedia enough for 100G

Finally NOW, I'm starting to get nitrite.

• Ammonia: 1.2 ppm to 2 ppm
• Nitrite: 1 to 2 ppm
• Nitrate: 4.5 ppm

In the meanwhile, four small patches of chrysophytes have grown over bits of the rocks. Hopefully they aren't stealing any ammonia/PO4 needed for the cycle.

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong, and why it's always taking me ages to cycle tanks, and multiple bacterial product ($$$)?
Anything I can do to speed the cycling of this specific tank?

Thanks! I'm just perplexed as to why I'm the only one unable to ride the wave of 1 week cycles with bacterial products.

Test kit used: Red Sea Ammonia, Salifert Nitrite, Hanna Low Range Nitrate.
Temperature: 77F - Salinity: 18-20 ppt (as suggested by Dr Tims)

If I dose just Instant Ocean with Turbo Start, I would expect ammonia to be oxidized within a week. Nitrite reduction would take weeks.

Even with no rock, the bacteria can oxidize ammonia. If you had not tried multiple bacteria sources, I would have said the bacteria were dead. Any chance that the bacteria products were frozen during transit?

 

[Muffin87]

Any chance that the bacteria products were frozen during transit?

I don't think so. I got the first bottle back in October/November, but it remained sealed until February.
All the other bottles were bought in February, but the climate here isn't really cold enough for things to freeze in trucks. It hardly ever get below freezing point in cities, even in winter.

 

[Muffin87]

the lack of sand

About a month a half ago, I put sand in flat-ish Tupperwares in the sump and in the tank.
That video you linked is my cycling Bible.

 

[Muffin87]

live ocean rock

with this level of ammonia tho, everything on the rock would die, and it could increase the ammonia levels to a point that the cycle would stunt.
That happened to me with the first tank I cycled!

 

[92Miata]

The explanation given by Dr. Tim is that the lack of sand is a big reason why bare bottom tanks take so long to cycle. Sand provides more surface area for bacteria to populate than any other material in your tank including the rocks, the walls of the tank etc. So with no sand, you can expect a much longer cycle time. Here’s the video where he mentions this briefly towards the end.

This just doesn't pass the smell test.

We routinely cycle barebottom glass quarantine and holding tanks with basically no surface area in less than a week using bacterial starters. Barebottom with no calcium carbonate substrate is standard operating procedure for quarantine. And with products like BioSpira - I've set up several barebottom reefs and had them all fish safe within a week. My typical process is Biospira on day 1, skimmer and fish on day 3. First corals in a week. No measurable ammonia ever.

Dr Tim's is the slowest product on the market, and the most likely to fail. He's a smart guy, but his cycling product is probably the worst on the market. If its taking months, the bottled bacteria didn't work. Tanks will cycle on their own in that timeframe. People need to stop taking advice from BRS infomercials.

 

[Dan_P]

This just doesn't pass the smell test.

We routinely cycle barebottom glass quarantine and holding tanks with basically no surface area in less than a week using bacterial starters. Barebottom with no calcium carbonate substrate is standard operating procedure for quarantine. And with products like BioSpira - I've set up several barebottom reefs and had them all fish safe within a week. My typical process is Biospira on day 1, skimmer and fish on day 3. First corals in a week. No measurable ammonia ever.

Dr Tim's is the slowest product on the market, and the most likely to fail. He's a smart guy, but his cycling product is probably the worst on the market. If its taking months, the bottled bacteria didn't work. Tanks will cycle on their own in that timeframe. People need to stop taking advice from BRS infomercials.

Check this out post #85. There is a surface area effect, but it might not be large enough to explain issues in bare bottom aquarium cycling. I prefer the weak bacteria in the bottle explanation.

Nitrifying Bacteria. Where Are You?

I take it that your system does not produce nitrite, just straight on to nitrate. Admit - I was lazy this time - I did not measure nitrite. There is not much if any nitrite produced. I think it is 'over limit' on nitrite processors. I would be happy to send some samples to @AquaBiomics. I...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[92Miata]

Check this out post #85. There is a surface area effect, but it might not be large enough to explain issues in bare bottom aquarium cycling. I prefer the weak bacteria in the bottle explanation.

Nitrifying Bacteria. Where Are You?

I take it that your system does not produce nitrite, just straight on to nitrate. Admit - I was lazy this time - I did not measure nitrite. There is not much if any nitrite produced. I think it is 'over limit' on nitrite processors. I would be happy to send some samples to @AquaBiomics. I...

www.reef2reef.com

That's interesting, and cool.


Though - it looks like "sand" and "rock slices" had basically the same effect, and I'd argue that your average bare bottom reef with a normal amount of rock matches those closer than it matches the bare tank example.

 

[G Santana]

I cycled my 130 gallon dry rock with two bottles of FritZyme 9 and I immediately put in a yellow tang and a purple tang. I never had an amonia reading, fish are still alive 1.5 years down the road, added 3 more fish in first few months all still here.

 

[brandon429]

This thread is a false stall

I've linked readers who study cycling dynamics to this thread for a good two months now.

Caused by: non digital ammonia testing + factoring any other parameter besides digitally assessed ammonia control

Thankfully for those that don't own digital ammonia test means, we already know how long it takes to ammonia cycle a given set of surface area (so does a cycle chart)

So, any degree of surface area used in a dry start setup + bottle bac and feed is done within half a month. Even if the bottle is dead, the feed alone will spurn filter growth via natural import means.


Stalled cycles are a marketing gimmick

 

[brandon429]

The only way this aquarium can't handle an intended bioload is if too little surface area was used during the initial wait

In viewing fifty thousand reef tank cycles, I've never seen that done

Post tank pic for the assessment win

 

[Dan_P]

That's interesting, and cool.


Though - it looks like "sand" and "rock slices" had basically the same effect, and I'd argue that your average bare bottom reef with a normal amount of rock matches those closer than it matches the bare tank example.

Totally agree with your interpretation.