Cycling concerns and solutions

[VanIsleReefTherapy]

I have doubts about where I'm at in my cycling process after unexpected ammonia showing up and I'd love some help.

I have a 13.5 Evo set up for observation/QT that's been up for two months and was seeded with Microbacter7 for the first 14 days. Bare bottom, started with two pieces of pre-used dry rock, and added GSP on live rock from a mature system two weeks in. Diatoms came and went, brown algae, and then a bit of GHA. Had super high phos (over 1.0) at that point, dosed Phosphat-E for a week at lfs recommendation and threw in some snails and a hermit. Phos was at .1 the following week and the tank looked great. This past week phos was .03.

Everything now has green coralline (including a speckling of it on my glass) and flecks of purple are starting to show. I've also got a bowl of new sand (with diatoms now) under one of the rocks that I put in last week to give habitat for the Hector's Goby I bought (I've already figured out that this might not have been the best choice for first fish).

Before today's 25% water change, Red Sea tests indicated that my ammonia was at .2 and nitrates were 8. The water change brought them down to .1 and 5 respectively. Nitrites were 0. I expected the rise in nitrates because I've been overfeeding to try to get the goby to eat, but I did not expect the ammonia.

I thought I was through that part of cycling. It tested at 0 before I got the Hector's goby. She seems okay, active, sifting, pecking rocks, etc. but she's a shy, skittish thing and I don't want to stress her.

It appears that the QT is still cycling. What can I do to get the ammonia all the way down? More Microbacter7? Prime? Just be patient and keep doing 20% water changes with no new additions until it's at 0?

I also have a 40b AIO DT that's been up with no lights for about three weeks now. First 14 days with Microbacter7 and nothing since, nothing in it but the same pre-used dry rock, new sand, and some chaeto in one of the back sump chambers in anticipation of a high phosphate spike like the one in the QT. The lfs says that often happens with dry rock. Today it tests 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, and 5 nitrates, but I don't trust that now because that's what my QT did.

I don't get what the bacteria are eating if there is no ammonia being introduced, and now there's nothing going into the DT besides RO top offs to maintain salinity. Won't the bacteria starve?

I don't want to introduce the goby to the DT until I know she will come eat and she looks fat and happy. There's nothing for her to scavenge if she's there alone, and when I introduce other fish, she will have competition. I'm not convinced the DT is cycled enough to put her in there, anyway.

I have a Reef Mature kit but didn't get it right at the beginning and haven't used it. Is there anything in that kit that I could safely use without a skimmer to feed the bacteria and test ammonia consumption? Should I just ghost feed? I intend to put my AI Prime on soon so there's algae for future critters to eat, and maybe start adding pods and whatever they need to be happy. I'm not really in a rush to stock it, I like watching critters in the QT. I can do patience.

Research is great, and I did a fair bit before I started and daily now, but it's different to actually be coordinating all the moving parts myself and dealing with contradictory advice from every corner, books being outdated, etc.

I'm pretty sure a sand-sifting goby was a mistake for first introduction, despite the lfs saying it would be fine. I should have waited for the pistol goby pair I intended to start with. Care info for the Hector's said easy to feed, I missed the moderate care part while I skimmed it at the lfs, I just knew it had been on my maybe list for stocking. Nowhere did it say *why* they were moderate care. Nothing said that sifters do better in a mature reef with microfauna and more detritus available, though now that seems rather obvious. I only figured it out researching here. Also, I obviously I need to be sure fish are eating prepared food before I bring them home in the future. I trust my lfs folks, they only do saltwater, they have many years of experience reefing and are well-respected by others I've met. I want people to get guidance from in person. Now I'm not sure who to trust about anything in a hobby where there are so many different ways to do things and still succeed (or fail spectacularly).

Thanks for reading my long-winded post. Does anyone have some kind, helpful advice or encouragement for me? I feel like a new parent freaking out over everything.

 

[glb]

Thanks for all the detail! For your smaller tank, I’m wondering if you had a little ammonia spike when you added the sand. An emergency strategy is adding Prime to neutralize the existing ammonia, but you still need to treat the source. If the goby was added close to the time you added the sand, the biofilter might have been disrupted again, causing the ammonia. Since the tank is small, you can do water changes, and more beneficial bacteria can never hurt. I agree that the tank was too new for the sand-sifting goby because there’s not enough detritus in the sand. If you fed a lot, that could contribute to ammonia in a young tank. I think you just need time for things to settle in. I’d wait on adding any new fish for now. Sounds like a great qt setup!

 

[glb]

As far as your 40gb (great tank size, that’s what I have!), yes the beneficial bacteria need a food source. I used pure ammonia and Dr. Tim’s One and Only bacteria to cycle my tank. Once the ammonia was converted to nitrates within 24 hours two days in a row, I did a water change to bring nitrates down and then added my first fish. IMO it would be fine to add your goby now because the tank is much bigger. On the other hand, I wonder if it might be better to ask the LFS to exchange it for something else since a new tank is short on food supply. I’m partial to a pair of clownfish as first fish because they’re hardy and very entertaining. Hope this helps and keep us posted!

 

[VanIsleReefTherapy]

Thanks for all the detail! For your smaller tank, I’m wondering if you had a little ammonia spike when you added the sand. An emergency strategy is adding Prime to neutralize the existing ammonia, but you still need to treat the source. If the goby was added close to the time you added the sand, the biofilter might have been disrupted again, causing the ammonia. Since the tank is small, you can do water changes, and more beneficial bacteria can never hurt. I agree that the tank was too new for the sand-sifting goby because there’s not enough detritus in the sand. If you fed a lot, that could contribute to ammonia in a young tank. I think you just need time for things to settle in. I’d wait on adding any new fish for now. Sounds like a great qt setup!

Thanks for your kind replies!

Yes, the sand and the goby were introduced at the same time. Water was cloudy for a couple of days (I have limited mechanical filtration). Okay, I didn't know that the new sand might disrupt my cycle.

I have plans to swap a rock from the QT into the DT at some point soon to help that cycle along, esp with coralline growth. I'll probably do that at the same time I set up and start the lights because I plan to move the GSP on live rock at the same time.

Will the barely cured rock from the DT, kept wet the whole time, also be likely to disrupt the cycle, or will it be okay since it's already got beneficial bacteria growing on it?

 

[glb]

Thanks for your kind replies!

Yes, the sand and the goby were introduced at the same time. Water was cloudy for a couple of days (I have limited mechanical filtration). Okay, I didn't know that the new sand might disrupt my cycle.

I have plans to swap a rock from the QT into the DT at some point soon to help that cycle along, esp with coralline growth. I'll probably do that at the same time I set up and start the lights because I plan to move the GSP on live rock at the same time.

Will the barely cured rock from the DT, kept wet the whole time, also be likely to disrupt the cycle, or will it be okay since it's already got beneficial bacteria growing on it?

I’d put the cured rock in first because it might cause a mini cycle. After it’s in and you don’t have any ammonia or nitrites, you can do a water change if the nitrates are very high (common after a cycle) then add the fish. A tank that size should be able to handle two fish easily after it’s cycled.

 

[TheBear78]

Don't forget that a cycle "completing" only means that enough bacteria has established to deal with the ammonia load introduced during the cycling.
Any addition or change in bioload within the tank can effect the ammonia load and a mini cycle might take place while the bacteria catches up.

 

[VanIsleReefTherapy]

Ok, so I reread the red sea ammonia testing instructions, and you have to use temp and Ph to get the percent to multiple your test result by in order to calculate the actual ppm of toxic ammonia. If I've done it correctly (I redid it several times to be sure), mine is at .0074 ppm. That's not perfect, but not anywhere near toxic levels.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

When I think of sand sifting gobies, the koumamsettas aren't the first ones that come to mind. My court jester gobies spent most of their time picking at the algae on my rock. I know these gobies will sift through the top layer of fine substrate, but I believe they can be kept in a newer tank that doesn't have a mature sandbed.