I'm setting up a 55 gal reef tank, live rock will be delivered this Friday. I keep getting conflicting advice on best way to cycle new tank. Help. I'm told cycle with lights on, I'm told cycle with lights off , I'm told, cycle with fish, I'm told don't cycle with fish. I've been told to add ammonia to the tank. And of course I've been told combinations of all that stuff. There has to be one best way. Please advise. Thanks
Cycling help
- Thread starter willist0
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drstratton
Valuable Member
As far as lights, I believe that is a personal choice, some say when on it will cause more algae to grow. I don't think it really matters one way or another. I have mine set to the schedule that I will use when I have livestock in there, because I like to see what's going on in the tank. I suppose if to much algae starts to grow you can turn them off or run them for less hours. Don't use live fish, when the ammonia spikes it is very hard on them. Throw in a couple of dead shrimp, wait for the ammonia to spike, then nitrites & nitrates to show up. When all those parameters are back to 0 your tank has cycled! I'm currently cycling my tank with dry rock, it will take a bit longer than yours. Good luck!
http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-ta...d-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/
Your rock will be the third and last type covered above
The specific procedure although any variation is fine would be:
Visual assess live rock upon delivery look for coralline and life
Gain non API ammonia test kit, salifert actually. You need to test this kind of rock, non API ammonia test kit
You do water changes and stop ammonia addition, not add it, for this kind of rock. If you detect free ammonia you do large water changes or add prime to neutralize, not boost ammonia
The kind of rock thats gets ammonia added to it, or a rotten shrimp, is the barren type of live rock from that link. Merely knowing you are receiving cured or uncured live rock gives a set of procedures that works on all tanks each time, its fun due to repeatability and exact predictability. You are trying to suppress ammonia here because your live rock will likely be leaking enough and if it doesn't, thats lucky, you can get to reefing.
You have paid for, and will receive, not rock of death but a rock full of life most of it your tank might not support. So you keep ammonia low here, on this kind of rock, to avoid chain reaction loss of animals not dead yet you'd be lucky to keep. This is costly good live rock you are getting, no?
Regardless, I've yet to see any variation any size any animals housed reef tank that the above thread doesn't cover.
Agreed on lights as personal choice, kill all algae the instant you see it perpetually. That act alone makes what you do with light inconsequential during the cycle, bacteria don't care and algae was your only risk. Its coming anyway, and the procedure for that is equally predictable although we like when people opt of out algae killing and into algae farming, it keeps our peroxide threads busy
Your rock will be the third and last type covered above
The specific procedure although any variation is fine would be:
Visual assess live rock upon delivery look for coralline and life
Gain non API ammonia test kit, salifert actually. You need to test this kind of rock, non API ammonia test kit
You do water changes and stop ammonia addition, not add it, for this kind of rock. If you detect free ammonia you do large water changes or add prime to neutralize, not boost ammonia
The kind of rock thats gets ammonia added to it, or a rotten shrimp, is the barren type of live rock from that link. Merely knowing you are receiving cured or uncured live rock gives a set of procedures that works on all tanks each time, its fun due to repeatability and exact predictability. You are trying to suppress ammonia here because your live rock will likely be leaking enough and if it doesn't, thats lucky, you can get to reefing.
You have paid for, and will receive, not rock of death but a rock full of life most of it your tank might not support. So you keep ammonia low here, on this kind of rock, to avoid chain reaction loss of animals not dead yet you'd be lucky to keep. This is costly good live rock you are getting, no?
Regardless, I've yet to see any variation any size any animals housed reef tank that the above thread doesn't cover.
Agreed on lights as personal choice, kill all algae the instant you see it perpetually. That act alone makes what you do with light inconsequential during the cycle, bacteria don't care and algae was your only risk. Its coming anyway, and the procedure for that is equally predictable although we like when people opt of out algae killing and into algae farming, it keeps our peroxide threads busy
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drstratton
Valuable Member
Is this a sticky? Should be!
No thats cool of you to mention though I believe its too opinionated lol.
I write just very opinionated posts about some things and sometimes its fun to run a few pages but the most fun part is science verification of the set of opinions
Its fun to place testable sets into the public and see how their variables challenge or support predictions, our site stays busy its taking off well
The bacteria are so naturally inclined to take up residence in wet habitats there's nothing we can do to ruin a cycle outside of antibiotic dosing. Anything shy of that is merely time alteration, and either supports benthic life established or wipes it out, leaving bacteria, to slowly build co communities up again to cool things like worm on the live rock, forams, little crabs and pods, coralline etc
I write just very opinionated posts about some things and sometimes its fun to run a few pages but the most fun part is science verification of the set of opinions
Its fun to place testable sets into the public and see how their variables challenge or support predictions, our site stays busy its taking off well
The bacteria are so naturally inclined to take up residence in wet habitats there's nothing we can do to ruin a cycle outside of antibiotic dosing. Anything shy of that is merely time alteration, and either supports benthic life established or wipes it out, leaving bacteria, to slowly build co communities up again to cool things like worm on the live rock, forams, little crabs and pods, coralline etc
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Harold Green
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with Brandon. The last couple of tanks I've set up have been set up with fresh uncured live rock. I do nothing but add phyto to feed the clams, dusters, and sponges on the rock. The tanks still go through the brown diatom stage which indicates to me the tank is cycling without any effort on my part to introduce ammonia. Generally I don't even see any rise in ammonia or nitrite so I allow a month or more and then add animals slowly to the tank. 54g I set up last week.
Thanks for your help. My rock is aqucultured rock and its actually being gathered today, divers might even be down while I type this.It should be shipped Thursday to arrive on Friday. Its coming from the Gulf of Mexico near Tampa and I live on the east coast of Florida about 85 miles north of Miami.
drstratton
Valuable Member
Just finished completely going through your thread on new tank cycling! Great information!!! It would be beneficial for every Newb to read, I wish I had known all of that the first time I cycled my tank. I never experienced a true cycle, because my system was completely alive, everything from the used tank I bought was kept in totes with lights, heaters and circulating pumps, the fish were kept in a temp 29g with some of the live rock they came with. When I had my system ready to go, I was told to throw dead shrimp in, now I understand that was not needed. I'm starting over, so I had to give my rocks an acid bath and dry them. Now the shrimp are rotting and it will not be a fast cycle for me this go around! Patience is not my strong suit, but this hobby has definitely helped me with that! I'm tempted to get some live rock, but I wasn't impressed with what's available from my lfs, to much Aptasia! I might take a trip to Seattle or Spokane and visit the stores there, maybe I'll find some nice live rock in a larger store.
drstratton
Valuable Member
I hope you'll start a build thread, it would be great to see what you've got and watch the progress. Good luck!
see this post below from friends at nr.com, this is the impact of using API ammonia test kits for low level readings, .25, they'll make a new keeper do things to the tank that are very unneeded:
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/366097-i-can-see-why-people-sell-their-reef-tanks/
this is the indicator sentence that means .25 made him undo the entire tank, whereas knowing it was zero would've not:
in doing so i removed the rubble and 2 sponges which apparently had all the good bacteria and sent my tank into a downward spiral.
he would have got the .25 reading just measuring his normally running reef tank. Also factor in pH measures as an initial concern, parameter chasing caused them to hate reefing, as they had no other offers to consider.
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/366097-i-can-see-why-people-sell-their-reef-tanks/
this is the indicator sentence that means .25 made him undo the entire tank, whereas knowing it was zero would've not:
in doing so i removed the rubble and 2 sponges which apparently had all the good bacteria and sent my tank into a downward spiral.
he would have got the .25 reading just measuring his normally running reef tank. Also factor in pH measures as an initial concern, parameter chasing caused them to hate reefing, as they had no other offers to consider.
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Harold Green
Well-Known Member
Normally I order live rock from florida but the lfs had recently received a thousand pounds of live rock from several sources and I was surprised to find rock from elsewhere that looked very similar to florida rock. The lfs is quite a bit pricier than ordering direct but I liked being able to hand pick which rocks I received. I guess I'm just not a believer in sterile dead rock unless you're using it for base rock to be colonized later. Fresh live rock can have clams, corals, dusters, encrusting sponges, glass anemonies, macro algeas and sometimes urchins, snails, pods, crabs and only rarely bad things.
agreed, you'd never catch me with dry rock cycling but not as judgment just as preference, I literally want the challenge of keeping the benthics alive, not working up to a max of 1/19th of them after 5 years. But, for sure the dry rock cyclers aren't getting mantis shrimp or bryopsis imports so each has its own benefit. if I ever got bryopsis, id kill it making it no bryopsis. if a mantis came in, he can hang as long as he stays small and then after that Ill starve the tank for 3 mos no feed, insert a feed trap, and catch him in one nano second lol. that is if the feed trap will fit in my tank, perhaps its the size of my tank already
Harold Green
Well-Known Member
I guess the worse I've dealt with have been urchins. Had to remove three that got too large for the tank and were displacing the frags. They kept the rock too clean, even of coralline. I was fortunate to get a red nudibranch on two occasions. I've never seen them anywhere else and they seem to live a year or more feeding off something on the live rock and tending to stay in the darker areas of the rockwork. They look like a red mushroom but a bit frilly around the edges. I definitely like having the clams to filter the water. I even keep some in my sump for extra filtering. I'm talking about the angle wings that come in on the florida live rock. All in all I prefer to start my tank with something that actually makes it look like a real reef to start with and find all the marine life that comes with the rock to be a plus to the tank.
The most important rule to follow when cycling a new aquarium is to take things slowly and wait to add livestock. You do not need to risk sacrificing fish to cycle your aquarium. Instead you can add waste by feeding the empty tank. You can use coral food, fish food, small pieces of seafood, etc. Anything that will decompose and create waste in the aquarium will work. Adding beneficial bacteria can also help but don't use it as an excuse to rush the process. Nothing replaces time. The more patient you are the more enjoyment you will have with the hobby.
As for running lights during the cycling process I prefer to leave them off for the first two weeks as they will not do much except grow algae. This early in the cycling process you will not have inverts or fish to eat the algae that grows. I recommend adding your first inverts after 3-4 weeks and your first fish after 4 weeks providing your Ammonia and Nitrite are at 0 and your Nitrates are below 10 ppm (ideally below 3ppm).
Dave
As for running lights during the cycling process I prefer to leave them off for the first two weeks as they will not do much except grow algae. This early in the cycling process you will not have inverts or fish to eat the algae that grows. I recommend adding your first inverts after 3-4 weeks and your first fish after 4 weeks providing your Ammonia and Nitrite are at 0 and your Nitrates are below 10 ppm (ideally below 3ppm).
Dave
