Cycling Help

[Mandurion]

Hey guys, noob here to reefing and need help with tank test results. I added bio-spira bacteria on 12/1 and added some fish on 12/4. Here are the test results below.

I have seen no signs of diatoms, etc. and my nitrates have been stagnant for a week. Surely the tank hasn't cycled by now so I'm not sure what stage it is in. Any thoughts would be great! Thanks

12/4 6pm
Added green chromis, black chromis, and firefang

12/5 6:30pm
Salinity: 1.026
pH: 8.2
Ammonia:0.2
Nitrite:0.2

12/7 7:30pm
Salinity: 1.026
pH: 8.2
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0.2
Nitrate:5

12/11 7:15pm
Salinity: 1.026
pH: 8.2
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0.2
Nitrate:10

12/16 7:45pm
Salinity: 1.026
pH: 8.2
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:10

12/18 7:45pm
Salinity: 1.026
pH: 8.2
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: 10

 

[Captain Quint]

Well, I guess I'll be the first to jump in...ugh

I understand you are new at this and I really don't want to come across as harsh because I'm truly not but you should know most of us do not use or put critters in a tank that is cycling. So with that out of the way, I'll continue with...

From the numbers you present it appears you have gone through the nitrogen process.

The reason most of us do not add livestock to an aquarium with ammonia present due to the probability of ammonia poisoning.

I hope the fishes are okay from possible ammonia toxicity damaging the gills and bleeding of the gills and skin/scales. because damage to the gills makes it difficult for the fish to get rid the ammonia they produce, resulting in a toxic buildup of the compound within themselves.

Please understand that I would like to offer any helpful advice as well as many other members and staff here for the enjoyment of the hobby.

Again I truly did not post this to be rude...only to mentor and foster a good relationship.

 

[KrisReef]

Well, I guess I'll be the first to jump in...ugh

I understand you are new at this and I really don't want to come across as harsh because I'm truly not but you should know most of us do not use or put critters in a tank that is cycling. So with that out of the way, I'll continue with...

From the numbers you present it appears you have gone through the nitrogen process.

The reason most of us do not add livestock to an aquarium with ammonia present due to the probability of ammonia poisoning.

I hope the fishes are okay from possible ammonia toxicity damaging the gills and bleeding of the gills and skin/scales. because damage to the gills makes it difficult for the fish to get rid the ammonia they produce, resulting in a toxic buildup of the compound within themselves.

Please understand that I would like to offer any helpful advice as well as many other members and staff here for the enjoyment of the hobby.

Again I truly did not post this to be rude...only to mentor and foster a good relationship.

Yup, that was kind of a harsh way of saying "WELCOME TO R2R!"

We do take the hobby and critter health and well being serious and only hope the best for you and your tank inhabitants. Hopefully, the cycle is past and the tank will thrive!

 

[Mandurion]

Well I have read about the different methods to cycle the tank and that's when I ordered the Bio-Spira. Owner of the one and only LFS here told me it would be fine to add them as long as the bacteria has been added. I have been feeding them and haven't noticed anything wrong or signs of stress. Also, if this method is grounds for ammonia poisoning fish then why does it say on the product description "The live bacteria start working immediately to provide a safe and healthy environment for your fish without the long wait." ? Am I missing something here?

With all of this being said, is it safe for me to add another fish or corals? Just trying to get a better understanding and take the right steps. Thanks

 

[ReeferReefer]

Yup, that was kind of a harsh way of saying "WELCOME TO R2R!"

We do take the hobby and critter health and well being serious and only hope the best for you and your tank inhabitants. Hopefully, the cycle is past and the tank will thrive!

Doesn't seem harsh at all to me. We all need a kick in the right direction at some point or another. I remember when I got started in the hobby with a 10g cube and a Pearl Gourami only to get online and find that I did not cycle and the tank was way too small!

These are common mistakes and there is no problem with pointing them out.

He was very polite about it IMO.

 

[ReeferReefer]

Well I have read about the different methods to cycle the tank and that's when I ordered the Bio-Spira. Owner of the one and only LFS here told me it would be fine to add them as long as the bacteria has been added. I have been feeding them and haven't noticed anything wrong or signs of stress. Also, if this method is grounds for ammonia poisoning fish then why does it say on the product description "The live bacteria start working immediately to provide a safe and healthy environment for your fish without the long wait." ? Am I missing something here?

With all of this being said, is it safe for me to add another fish or corals? Just trying to get a better understanding and take the right steps. Thanks

The thing that you are missing is that the bottle is not completely truthful. There is a large thread here titled "Bacteria in a bottle: Fact or Myth?" that overviews the topic in detail. Pretty much these products do contain beneficial bacteria, but in actual use they only speed up the cycle, not remove it. If I remember correctly it can cycle a tank as quickly as 10 days but many times it still takes longer.

If it was me, I would continue testing and give it another 15 days before adding more livestock.

The key thing to remember in this hobby is that "nothing good happens fast". It is a hobby of patience.

 

[davocean]

It's harsh reality that needs to be pointed out, Captain quint put it about as nice as it could be presented to OP I think.

Also Quint was bolder and therefore more helpful than I, because I looked at this a couple times trying to think of a nice way to explain it myself and he beat me to it.

It's way too soon to add fish to this system, and I understand a lot of these quick cycle treatments may confuse new to hobby reefers into doing this.

 

[tankstudy]

Well I have read about the different methods to cycle the tank and that's when I ordered the Bio-Spira. Owner of the one and only LFS here told me it would be fine to add them as long as the bacteria has been added. I have been feeding them and haven't noticed anything wrong or signs of stress. Also, if this method is grounds for ammonia poisoning fish then why does it say on the product description "The live bacteria start working immediately to provide a safe and healthy environment for your fish without the long wait." ? Am I missing something here?

With all of this being said, is it safe for me to add another fish or corals? Just trying to get a better understanding and take the right steps. Thanks

It is safe to add more fish. Once you add your last fish, test your tank once again. If after a few days, ammonia is not present, then add corals. From what I have seen, corals don't tolerate 0.2-0.25 ppm ammonia very well.

When people stock slowly, it's because it causes a small increase in the normal amount of ammonia anyways. This in turn will increase your bacteria load. Whether you add that fish now or later, that increase is going to happen when you add that new fish. Just make sure you don't add a lot of fish at once.

If I remember correctly it can cycle a tank as quickly as 10 days but many times it still takes longer.

Depending on how knowledgeable you are about the bottled bacteria, you can cycle it as fast as 3 days. However, average reefers should stick to the instructions provided by the manufacturer to avoid problems. Most people run in to problems with bottled bacteria when they stray from the instructions.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

There is a lot of confusion on cycle.
You are reading nitrates. So yes. The tank is cycling.
Ammonia nitrite nitrate

Diatoms etc , have nothing to do with that, save that they feed on the nitrogen and phosphorus that have been introduced by fish waste.

Grab an ammonia alert badge. Ammonia is the concern. It’s more accurate than an api test.

 

[ReeferReefer]

Depending on how knowledgeable you are about the bottled bacteria, you can cycle it as fast as 3 days. However, average reefers should stick to the instructions provided by the manufacturer to avoid problems. Most people run in to problems with bottled bacteria when they stray from the instructions.

I will say that it really depends on what the goal is. Can you get denitrifying bacteria to form a stable population in 3 days with bottled products? Sure. But it is clear to me that it would not represent a mature system.

I personally really like the 4 month cycle method recently highlighted by BRS and WWC. I feel that the goal should to be have a stable long term system and not a race to see how quick you can get fish and corals into the tank. Biological systems just take time to mature.

Obviously you seem to have more knowledge than me on this topic. That being said I would not recommend that a beginner should add corals in the first month of having their tank set up. It would seem more logical to me that they take it slow.

 

[davocean]

I will say that it really depends on what the goal is. Can you get denitrifying bacteria to form a stable population in 3 days with bottled products? Sure. But it is clear to me that it would not represent a mature system.

I personally really like the 4 month cycle method recently highlighted by BRS and WWC. I feel that the goal should to be have a stable long term system and not a race to see how quick you can get fish and corals into the tank. Biological systems just take time to mature.

Obviously you seem to have more knowledge than me on this topic. That being said I would not recommend that a beginner should add corals in the first month of having their tank set up. It would seem more logical to me that they take it slow.

Is this correct 4 months and not 4 weeks?

 

[ReeferReefer]

Is this correct 4 months and not 4 weeks?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ep12-finally-the-4-month-cycle-explained-brs-wwc-system.520154/

Fish can go in sooner with this method, but its 4 months before coral.

 

[mta_morrow]

Is this correct 4 months and not 4 weeks?

It’s what WWC does with their tanks.

Far from necessary but there will be some now who will say it’s a must!

 

[ReeferReefer]

It’s what WWC does with their tanks.

Far from necessary but there will be some now who will say it’s a must!

It is in no way necessary, but replicating successful systems is a great way for less experienced hobbiests to get better results.

 

[mta_morrow]

I have always used bottled bacteria to start a tank cycle.

Works great.

I do dose ammonia to 2 ppm and watch it drop to 0, while also watching nitrite and nitrates do their thing.

I do this for 10 days to 2 weeks.

Then I begin to add fish.

I’m 9 months in to my current tank and have yet to add SPS.

I added the easier and more forgiving LPS and softies earlier on.

I hope the fish make it through and I think they will.

I would kindly recommend more reading, research, and @BRS videos.

Watch their 52 weeks of reefing from the first episode to the last.

And of course, ask questions here before you make decisions.

We all do!

Welcome to R2R and please start a build thread so we can see your progress.

 

[davocean]

It is in no way necessary, but replicating successful systems is a great way for less experienced hobbiests to get better results.

I'm sure there is some truth there, and I usually really like and agree w/ most BRS vids, this one I have not seen yet.(will watch later)

It does seem people usually just do not have patience and the quick cycle solutions only feed that, and I totally agree going slow is best, but personally I would have a hard time myself waiting 4 months for coral, at least softies would be in way before.

It's bad enough we wait so long for anemone's, but in riding w/ that statement and the benefit that comes w/ time and param stability I'm sure it could help, not so sure it's a must.

 

[Idoc]

Welcome to R2R!!!

I'd just recommend to take it a bit slower. Quick changes lead to many problems for you in the future... which leads to people dropping the hobby!

Let your stem style in to the finish you have, then maybe add another fish in a month, etc... plus, this gives you time to research your next fish, etc...

If you aren't quaranting your fish first, I highly recommend doing some research into it. Then you can make a decision to do it or skip it.

 

[Brew12]

Looks like I am in the minority, but I would have no issue with adding another fish or two at this point. Just make sure they are relatively small and not "messy eaters".

When I set up a quarantine system, I will fill it with water, add Biospira, and put a fish in it all in the same day and have never had an ammonia issue. I will say that this isn't my preferred method for starting up a new display tank but there is no reason it shouldn't work. When setting up a display tank (DT) instead of a quarantine tank (QT) I like to make sure the system can process a large amount of ammonia prior to adding fish.

Why do I test it for a DT? There is a chance that the bottled bacteria product does not work as advertised. We don't know the conditions such as heating or freezing it went through prior to us getting it. Why do I not worry about it on a QT? I keep enough water on hand to do a 100% water change on my QT. I cannot do that with my DT. I can easily clean out any uneaten food in my QT. It will not sit and rot and contribute to ammonia like it will in a DT.

In addition to the nitrogen cycle, there are other chemical equilibrium that happen inside a DT when it is first filled with salt water. You will find that pH isn't stable. Phosphates tend to drift all over. Alkalinity and calcium can do crazy things. It can take a few weeks for everything to start to stabilize. Most people consider this part of the tanks "cycle" even though it isn't related to nitrifying bacteria.

 

[Mandurion]

Thanks for all of the insight guys. I will start a build thread over the weekend and show progress. This has been very helpful. Here are some pictures of the tank so far!

 

[Mandurion]

Thanks for all of the insight guys. Very helpful information. I will start a build thread over the weekend but here are some pictures so far of the tank.