but one heck of an opinion answer plus thread reference is coming that's for sure. I have a custom idea where that ats will be great.
Looking forward to it.I'm 20 chats in the hole
but when I used to do it (part of early hand guiding of surfaces to only allow coralline to take over, and never a plant) I would apply 35% peroxide outside of water to the target and toast it gone. Rasp off the surface, refill. Plant a new coral on the spot so it’s flesh creeps over cleared ground and permanently excludes algae (how many of those tanks above had algae ON on a mushroom coral, or on a living brain coral polyp in the oral zone- right on the flesh? Zero. Not one. Flesh is algae excluding and so is coralline, algae grows on anchor points not on rejecting surfaces)
Want to show you where my opinions on algae control come from. The years.
Quick scan these for before and after pics. Don’t get too caught on reading mass volume type some of this stuff is outdated peroxide work, we’re in this to see how invasions -present- not what I thought would help.
Look at the vast array, cost, value, volume contained, clam systems, sps systems fish systems on and on. ****nearly every one of them with parameter management in place for nutrients before, during and after invasion****
I wasn’t getting people who jacked their N and P sky high. Back then, nobody would’ve dreamed to dose N or P directly. We were all removing them then, you recall
And, some were higher N and P reported measures, just so we don’t claim that nutrients one way or another have a big effect on being algae invaded. Poor nutrients only mean you work harder to maintain surfaces. Ideal nutrients squelch algae and still maintain corals, you work less.
I’ll tell in a sec what patterns I think stand out. Set up your tank oppositely and we should be gtg
Works:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359
https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/?page=62
Just those two threads alone is enough, five yrs or so worth. All in one thread for sifting. Skip my typing just thumb before and after page after page to see the breadth of presentations=ATS, gfo, tang grazers, snail grazers *perfect* top off water still invaded, sunlight or no direct sunlight still invaded, deep sand bed or no deep sand bed invaded, chaeto refugium and still invaded, new tanks and old tanks invaded.
Remember there’s always the sages, artists who command stellar tanks in their living room and they may indeed be very old, and uninvaded.
******we have people replicating their methods who are invaded*****
I’m not trying to debate anyone about philosophy of algae. Am simply relaying the patterns I feel can be validated above, someone let me know if I’m off base claiming, based on those threads, these high points:
Preventatives are not removers
Preventative steps for algae invasion are wonderful, and they’re not intended to be what removes an invader when you see it right there in your tank in spite of things being perfect already. Preventatives include ATS, gfo, all clean up crew members, param tuning for nitrate and phosphate levels of the decade, perfect lighting PAR and any other form of light tuning, using plants to offset waste as in reactors, using UV and and any other method we’ve read in a book is a *preventative* and not a remover.
Since those authors didn’t differentiate between preventatives and removers, they turned out thousands of aquariums destined to seek back- alley science one day to save their five thousand dollar clam tank when preventative approach #8 didn’t work. It’s also the authors fault they don’t run cure threads to evolve their method, heh, but that’s -stinging- accountability we can only ask so much.
Please let me introduce what a remover is, it comes in many forms. What did spiritwalker employ as a remover here? I hadn’t even thought of this idea:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/beeping-green-hair-algae.527285/
I would read his five pages, not quick scan.
A remover is something that takes green hair algae off your rocks yesterday. **not just brushing it off that’s guaranteed growback*** a perfect remover has a kill step, a sustain step. We don’t care what the mechanism is, but kill the algae don’t just brush it off. Spiritwalker used HEAT to denature/dissolve the algae clean off the rocks. The fact he took back ground vs ceding it is the ENTIRE trick to owning a reef tank that is NEVER invaded. He used boiling water. He could have used a blue jet torch lighter and a knife, doesn’t matter, a kill step has a sustaining action beyond just a topical remove that’s very important so that growback is minimized.
He burned the crap out of his GHA, he worried about preventatives after. He ordered the ops vs haphazarding them, this thread is the best recent example I’ve seen for large tank algae control and here’s why:
It’s repeatable.
I myself am a 35% peroxide burner. I don’t use boiling water but the attitude is all that matters, these people aren’t giving up ground anymore. To any excuse. That’s the secret. If you get lucky in preventing, you’ll work less killing the crap out of the target to force compliance in your aquarium, as we do.
Not that I have to treat my tank for algae in years
How many times did I need to know someone’s nutrient params in order to get the tank back in line? I struggle to find any times we measured nitrate and phosphate, yet those are algae cure threads. Hmm.
Nutrients affect how often you must employ the remover/burn/kill/destroy method of your choosing, and, since an ocean likes to grow plants- we expect preventatives to NEED HELP sometimes but as you can see, the aquarists above were told that the nutrient tuning and fine preventative alone would work. It doesn’t for the vast majority although a sage is never going to have trouble reefing no matter the setting.
We want to relay information the masses can replicate right now, or report back in an accountability thread that something didn’t work.
The best information is to not stack your initial aquascape with an inaccessible wall of rocks. Create no reason at all you can’t get in there, yank those initial structures out even if coated in live SPS corals, and stab out with a knife any organism that wants to take your tank away from you.
Worried about accessing your tank due to its delicate sandbed? We knew that was a massive source of hesitation (the cause for all mass tank invasions is simply hesitating past day one, when the invader was controllable) so the last set of pages to offer is the sand rinse thread aka the cure to all cyano invasions.
Sandbedders also read from authors who don’t have to stick around to do the cleanup, by all means please consider how following normal sandbed rules works for the masses here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
When I see someone with an invasion then I know they chose it.
They think something happened outside their control, and if you tell them they wanted to be invaded and then became that way, flames ensue
But did spiritwalker entertain his invader? Did he -hesitate- for nine days on an ID thread, buying scopes from amazon, while the invasion spread rock to rock? No, he opted out and so did I and I hope you do as well
We think that to allow an uglies phase in your new tank, again this is something authors promulgate but never stick around to clean, is to purposefully seed and fragment your tank with items that can one day kill it, or cause you to need irregular means. We think the opposite is what saves tanks and causes compliance for all new reefs setup: hand guide then like our grandmas did for dandelions until the garden grew dense enough to crowd out invaders pretty well on its own. Start busy, lessen off as coral loading and coralline increases. All those tanks above purposefully seeded themselves during hands off periods and -limited- *themselves* to water only action. I have to sell most people on why they should directly kill algae, as needed, independent of preventatives, and they consider the notion a fully foreign concept. It should be expected.
Have a clean sandbed at the start so that silt doesn’t set you back. Have a rock structure that is removable, accessible, in some creative way. Expect to have an uglies phase, especially if you buy non live white rock, and work that reef into compliance don’t ever will it into an invaded condition like so many have, do, and will.
Set your water params to what corals want. Not what it takes to starve algae. Make that occur in the condition of perfect coral params and this correctly positions how we should manage nutrient levels in a successful, uninvaded reef tank.
B
Want to show you where my opinions on algae control come from. The years.
Quick scan these for before and after pics. Don’t get too caught on reading mass volume type some of this stuff is outdated peroxide work, we’re in this to see how invasions -present- not what I thought would help.
Look at the vast array, cost, value, volume contained, clam systems, sps systems fish systems on and on. ****nearly every one of them with parameter management in place for nutrients before, during and after invasion****
I wasn’t getting people who jacked their N and P sky high. Back then, nobody would’ve dreamed to dose N or P directly. We were all removing them then, you recall
And, some were higher N and P reported measures, just so we don’t claim that nutrients one way or another have a big effect on being algae invaded. Poor nutrients only mean you work harder to maintain surfaces. Ideal nutrients squelch algae and still maintain corals, you work less.
I’ll tell in a sec what patterns I think stand out. Set up your tank oppositely and we should be gtg
Works:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359
https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/?page=62
Just those two threads alone is enough, five yrs or so worth. All in one thread for sifting. Skip my typing just thumb before and after page after page to see the breadth of presentations=ATS, gfo, tang grazers, snail grazers *perfect* top off water still invaded, sunlight or no direct sunlight still invaded, deep sand bed or no deep sand bed invaded, chaeto refugium and still invaded, new tanks and old tanks invaded.
Remember there’s always the sages, artists who command stellar tanks in their living room and they may indeed be very old, and uninvaded.
******we have people replicating their methods who are invaded*****
I’m not trying to debate anyone about philosophy of algae. Am simply relaying the patterns I feel can be validated above, someone let me know if I’m off base claiming, based on those threads, these high points:
Preventatives are not removers
Preventative steps for algae invasion are wonderful, and they’re not intended to be what removes an invader when you see it right there in your tank in spite of things being perfect already. Preventatives include ATS, gfo, all clean up crew members, param tuning for nitrate and phosphate levels of the decade, perfect lighting PAR and any other form of light tuning, using plants to offset waste as in reactors, using UV and and any other method we’ve read in a book is a *preventative* and not a remover.
Since most reefing authors didn’t differentiate between preventatives and removers, they turned out thousands of aquariums destined to seek back- alley science one day to save their five thousand dollar clam tank when preventative approach #8 didn’t work. It’s also the authors fault they don’t run cure threads to evolve their method, heh, but that’s -stinging- accountability we can only ask so much.
Please let me introduce what a remover is, it comes in many forms. What did spiritwalker employ as a remover here? I hadn’t even thought of this idea:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/beeping-green-hair-algae.527285/
I would read his five pages, not quick scan.
A remover is something that takes green hair algae off your rocks yesterday. **not just brushing it off that’s guaranteed growback*** a perfect remover has a kill step, a sustain step. We don’t care what the mechanism is, but kill the algae don’t just brush it off. Spiritwalker used HEAT to denature/dissolve the algae clean off the rocks. The fact he took back ground vs ceding it is the ENTIRE trick to owning a reef tank that is NEVER invaded. He used boiling water. He could have used a blue jet torch lighter and a knife, doesn’t matter, a kill step has a sustaining action beyond just a topical remove that’s very important so that growback is minimized.
He burned the crap out of his GHA, he worried about preventatives after. He ordered the ops vs haphazarding them, this thread is the best recent example I’ve seen for large tank algae control and here’s why:
It’s repeatable.
I myself am a 35% peroxide burner. I don’t use boiling water but the attitude is all that matters, these people aren’t giving up ground anymore. To any excuse. That’s the secret. If you get lucky in preventing, you’ll work less killing the crap out of the target to force compliance in your aquarium, as we do.
Not that I have to treat my tank for algae in years
How many times did I need to know someone’s nutrient params in order to get the tank back in line? I struggle to find any times we measured nitrate and phosphate, yet those are algae cure threads. Hmm.
Nutrients affect how often you must employ the remover/burn/kill/destroy method of your choosing, and, since an ocean likes to grow plants- we expect preventatives to NEED HELP sometimes but as you can see, the aquarists above were told that the nutrient tuning and fine preventative alone would work. It doesn’t for the vast majority although a sage is never going to have trouble reefing no matter the setting.
We want to relay information the masses can replicate right now, or report back in an accountability thread that something didn’t work.
The best information is to not stack your initial aquascape with an inaccessible wall of rocks. Create no reason at all you can’t get in there, yank those initial structures out even if coated in live SPS corals, and stab out with a knife any organism that wants to take your tank away from you.
Worried about accessing your tank due to its delicate sandbed? We knew that was a massive source of hesitation (the cause for all mass tank invasions is simply hesitating past day one, when the invader was controllable) so the last set of pages to offer is the sand rinse thread aka the cure to all cyano invasions.
Sandbedders also read from authors who don’t have to stick around to do the cleanup, by all means please consider how following normal sandbed rules works for the masses here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
When I see someone with an invasion then I know they chose it.
They think something happened outside their control, and if you tell them they wanted to be invaded and then became that way, flames ensue
But did spiritwalker entertain his invader? Did he -hesitate- for nine days on an ID thread, buying scopes from amazon, while the invasion spread rock to rock? No, he opted out and so did I and I hope you do as well
We think that to allow an uglies phase in your new tank, again this is something authors promulgate but never stick around to clean, is to purposefully seed and fragment your tank with items that can one day kill it, or cause you to need irregular means. We think the opposite is what saves tanks and causes compliance for all new reefs setup: hand guide then like our grandmas did for dandelions until the garden grew dense enough to crowd out invaders pretty well on its own. Start busy, lessen off as coral loading and coralline increases. All those tanks above purposefully seeded themselves during hands off periods and -limited- *themselves* to water only action. I have to sell most people on why they should directly kill algae, as needed, independent of preventatives, and they consider the notion a fully foreign concept. It should be expected.
Have a clean sandbed at the start so that silt doesn’t set you back. Have a rock structure that is removable, accessible, in some creative way. Expect to have an uglies phase, especially if you buy non live white rock, and work that reef into compliance don’t ever will it into an invaded condition like so many have, do, and will.
Set your water params to what corals want. Not what it takes to starve algae. this correctly positions how we should manage nutrient levels in a successful, uninvaded reef tank. We don’t alter nutrients around an invader, reactively, we are consistent because corals are our focus and they like consistency.
Remember there are some people who feel that algae and initial invasion aren’t bad, or that they're not ‘invaders’ which I consider any organism associated with loss examples above.
They will never adhere to hand guiding and especially harsh burning, so I’m not trying to win them over in debate (do they run cure threads??)
I wanted to show you how people were just sure their preventatives were gonna work and when they didn’t, the whole plan fell apart but the fix was there all along.
Have a scape/max tank volume set by the degree you are able and willing to access any nook or any cranny including a full water change if required, this is the secret to being algae free. It is a will, a mindset. To be the owner of an invaded reef tank is a matter of psychology not biology. Growback control is the biology portion. the resolved are never invaded day one to day 4000
B
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