Cycling question Help needed!

[eqbal9947]

So I have been cycling my tank for 3+ weeks
Initially I had used Dr.Tims and (mistakenly) Live sand from carib sea.
The Dr.Tims did not cycle according to their schedule so I gave it extra time.
I called the shop i bought the Tims from and they said that if the ammonia doesnt start going down by 2 weeks to ADD Microbacter 7 (only thing I had available in my town)
So I dosed Microbacter 7 after 16 days.
Its been a but longer than 3 weeks and the ammonia levels went from 1.5-2 PPM to 0.25 PPM.
My nitrite is still over 4 (highest tester shows)
I'm wondering if I should add more Ammonium Chloride because you are supposed to dose it twice in the Dr.Tims schedule that you're supposed to follow

Thanks all!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

So I have been cycling my tank for 3+ weeks
Initially I had used Dr.Tims and (mistakenly) Live sand from carib sea.
The Dr.Tims did not cycle according to their schedule so I gave it extra time.
I called the shop i bought the Tims from and they said that if the ammonia doesnt start going down by 2 weeks to ADD Microbacter 7 (only thing I had available in my town)
So I dosed Microbacter 7 after 16 days.
Its been a but longer than 3 weeks and the ammonia levels went from 1.5-2 PPM to 0.25 PPM.
My nitrite is still over 4 (highest tester shows)
I'm wondering if I should add more Ammonium Chloride because you are supposed to dose it twice in the Dr.Tims schedule that you're supposed to follow

Thanks all!

You don't need to dose ammonia again if you already dosed it once up to a concentration of 2ppm

 

[eqbal9947]

You don't need to dose ammonia again if you already dosed it once up to a concentration of 2ppm

So if i wait until its 0 ppm, can i add fish safely after nitrites reach 0ppm?
should I dose again and try and time how long it takes to get back to 0ppm?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

So if i wait until its 0 ppm, can i add fish safely? should i dose again and try and time how long it takes to get back to 0ppm?

When the ammonia and nitrite both reach 0 it should be safe to add fish...if you want to dose ammonia again just to double check you can but there's not really a reason to

 

[eqbal9947]

When the ammonia and nitrite both reach 0 it should be safe to add fish...if you want to dose ammonia again just to double check you can but there's not really a reason to

thanks!

 

[Garf]

So if i wait until its 0 ppm, can i add fish safely after nitrites reach 0ppm?
should I dose again and try and time how long it takes to get back to 0ppm?

It’s safe now, as nitrites aren’t toxic at those levels. Low levels of total ammonia are common and when it’s converted into free ammonia it’s tiny, and deemed safe also. Fully cycled, no. Safe, yes.

 

[brandon429]

All bottle bac cycles are done before three weeks.

reason for stumbling here: old cycling science vs new (what parameters we measure in assigning start dates) non digital test kits (your ammonia is lower than what is reported) advice being given is opposite from giant work threads showing all bottle bac cycles are done before three weeks (Dr. Reefs hundred page study of the common brands of bacteria)

The Dr. Tims bac didn’t fail here. The tank was ready by day ten maximum wait. It’s in the study threads for anyone wanting to see timing studies.



A common cycling chart already shows ammonia control by day ten, constantly ignoring known action dates from cycle charts is a huge fault of old/false cycling science.




we should be expressing concern over fish disease preps.
old cycling science always fears ammonia control to the exclusion of all fish disease mention, which the only source of patterned loss in new tanks we can find and post. None come from lack of ammonia control.

**a second round of bottle bac was never needed here, a plan for fish disease prevention is what’s needed.

 

[eqbal9947]

All bottle bac cycles are done before three weeks.

reason for stumbling here: old cycling science vs new (what parameters we measure in assigning start dates) non digital test kits (your ammonia is lower than what is reported) advice being given is opposite from giant work threads showing all bottle bac cycles are done before three weeks (Dr. Reefs hundred page study of the common brands of bacteria)

The Dr. Tims bac didn’t fail here. The tank was ready by day ten maximum wait. It’s in the study threads for anyone wanting to see timing studies.



A common cycling chart already shows ammonia control by day ten, constantly ignoring known action dates from cycle charts is a huge fault of old/false cycling science.




we should be expressing concern over fish disease preps.
old cycling science always fears ammonia control to the exclusion of all fish disease mention, which the only source of patterned loss in new tanks we can find and post. None come from lack of ammonia control.

**a second round of bottle bac was never needed here, a plan for fish disease prevention is what’s needed.

I am Quarantining my fish with copper 1.5ppm. Have used API general cure and given them a fresh water dip.

 

[Garf]

I am Quarantining my fish with copper 1.5ppm. Have used API general cure and given them a fresh water dip.

There’s not a lot else you could do, realistically. The condition of the fish when purchased seems to be a massive portion of the success or failure from here on in. How long they got left in quarantine?

 

[Mark Goode]

Initially I had used Dr.Tims and (mistakenly) Live sand from carib sea.

Why is this a mistake? You've got me worried now, my LFS has just flogged me a bottle of Turbo Start, Ammonium Chloride and four bags of Caribsea 'live', wet sand.

 

[Garf]

Why is this a mistake? You've got me worried now, my LFS has just flogged me a bottle of Turbo Start, Ammonium Chloride and four bags of Caribsea 'live', wet sand.

Some say the live sand slows the cycle, perhaps because the sand is colonized by bacteria other than nitrifyers (maybe). Don’t worry about it, more types the merrier in my book.

 

[Mark Goode]

Some say the live sand slows the cycle, perhaps because the sand is colonized by bacteria other than nitrifyers (maybe). Don’t worry about it, more types the merrier in my book.

Sounds good to me, thanks.

 

[eqbal9947]

There’s not a lot else you could do, realistically. The condition of the fish when purchased seems to be a massive portion of the success or failure from here on in. How long they got left in quarantine?

They’ve been in there for more than a month. Took longer than I thought to get the tank set up and cycling

 

[brandon429]

Very nice job on the qt, that’s part of the new cutting edge means of preparing tanks. Rare to see that as part of the overall design, very nice

The ammonia control is easy, consistent across all tanks such that we already know completion dates before any tank is even built…so does a cycle chart. any reef convention where 350 reefs were ready on a Friday made use of exact start date biology. You’re off to a great start, but don’t buy any more bacteria, nor supplements. Your cycle isn’t in question.

any rocks you’ve had in contact with the stewing wastewater this whole time are cycled, Dr. Reefs bottle bac thread was an exhaustive study in bacteria deposition times for the brand (s) you’ve used. You surpassed each critical date, this is ready, it’s why bottle bacteria costs like it does vs free. It works, you’re ready, not owning a seneye is causing any doubt it’s not actually the cycle in question.


it’s not that your tank is the one among a thousand reefs that couldn’t have an exact start date and make a reef convention invite on time, it’s that you’re using buyer’s cycling rules vs sellers cycling rules. your display is able to carry your intended bioload, that means cycled.


next up will be tank maturation / ugly phases…I consider those markers independent to the allowed start date for bioload carry. That date is exact…it’s the first opening day of any reef convention.


Dr. Tims is the most used cycling bac in the world. Your cycle was fine, it’s not stalled in the least.

 

[brandon429]

For the final win, please post a pic of your display so we can assess surface area. I expect like all other reef pics, excessive surface area beyond any bioload the tank will ever see will be shown.

 

[eqbal9947]

Very nice job on the qt, that’s part of the new cutting edge means of preparing tanks. Rare to see that as part of the overall design, very nice

The ammonia control is easy, consistent across all tanks such that we already know completion dates before any tank is even built…so does a cycle chart. any reef convention where 350 reefs were ready on a Friday made use of exact start date biology. You’re off to a great start, but don’t buy any more bacteria, nor supplements. Your cycle isn’t in question.

any rocks you’ve had in contact with the stewing wastewater this whole time are cycled, Dr. Reefs bottle bac thread was an exhaustive study in bacteria deposition times for the brand (s) you’ve used. You surpassed each critical date, this is ready, it’s why bottle bacteria costs like it does vs free. It works, you’re ready, not owning a seneye is causing any doubt it’s not actually the cycle in question.

Awesome! Thanks for the advice! I’ll wait till nitrites are down, water change and then add the fish!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Cycling times will vary but at week 2-3, you are in essence completing your cycle for introduction of fish.
The purpose of a cycle is to create bacteria that will be consuming ammonia and nitrite from your livestock, but you have to get the bacteria from somewhere initially. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker,( although dont occupy yourself with nitrite in a marine tank unless sky high) and lastly nitrate will rise and fall. Once Ammonia reads 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.
What copper product are you using for Qt ? What test kit are you using to monitor copper level?

 

[brandon429]

eqbal


ready means ready, it means no more wait is required. You cannot increase bioload carry safety in your tank by taking any further delays or preps. We don’t factor nitrite in updated cycling science start date assessment, see any post made by Randy in the last decade. They use nitrite only as a factor in nitrate test misreads, it’s a neutral parameter in start date assessment because nitrite is a neutral param in display tank cycles.


anything you read to the counter came from someone trying to sell you on risk of a stalled cycle, even though no convention tank owner ever encountered a stall, not one time ever. Factoring nitrite is a complete waste of time, but since you’re quarantining it’s doesn’t matter. If you waited till July to begin Id still be overall impressed you began off the bat with disease preps. It’s the #1 thing our hobby needs most.

 

[eqbal9947]

For the final win, please post a pic of your display so we can assess surface area. I expect like all other reef pics, excessive surface area beyond any bioload the tank will ever see will be shown.

 

[Garf]

Lol, nice. What fish you got in quarantine, a shark?