Adam_J
Community Member
Just about ready to fill my tank , I'm using 100% dry rock and dry sand. I've heard about using a peice of shrimp. Just looking for some feedback on the best way too start it up . Thanks in advance
Cycling question
- Thread starter Adam_J
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beaslbob
2500 Club Member
add macro algae like cheatomorphia.
skip the raw shrimp
(might partition the tank so a small section for the chaeto)
wait a week then add a single male molly.
Wait another week and add some more fish (couple of female mollys?) and start feeding 1 flake per day.
in another week or two the tank should be able to take saltwater only fish so return the mollies to the LFS.
All the while with little to no ammonia/nitrItes spikes but a possible initial nitrate spike.
my .02
skip the raw shrimp
(might partition the tank so a small section for the chaeto)
wait a week then add a single male molly.
Wait another week and add some more fish (couple of female mollys?) and start feeding 1 flake per day.
in another week or two the tank should be able to take saltwater only fish so return the mollies to the LFS.
All the while with little to no ammonia/nitrItes spikes but a possible initial nitrate spike.
my .02
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jent
Active Member
I would not use live fish (the molly) for your cycle.
If using dry rock I would recommend seeding the bacteria by using Dr. Tim's product. He also sells ammonia that you can use to provide the ammonia source. This is a much cleaner and more precise way to start the cycle. One which will not stress and animal by forcing it to live through the ammonia spike (and not force you to have an ugly fish long term).
If using dry rock I would recommend seeding the bacteria by using Dr. Tim's product. He also sells ammonia that you can use to provide the ammonia source. This is a much cleaner and more precise way to start the cycle. One which will not stress and animal by forcing it to live through the ammonia spike (and not force you to have an ugly fish long term).
beaslbob
2500 Club Member
Just for the record the fish will not feel any stress because all the ammonia being generated will be consumed by the macro algae and all the co2 generated will be also consumed by the macro algae. And fish food plus oxygen will be returned to the system. So the fish will find a low co2 high oxygen and no ammonia environment.
Find a small piece of live rock if you can from a fellow reefer. If you truly have dry rock and sand you cannot expect the bacteria to still be alive. Mollies are inexpensive are rather easy to catch too. As long as you don't make your ammonia above 5 ppm the molly shouldn't have a problem. Anything that decays or produces waste will allow for ammonia in your system. How large of a system by the way?
(If the sand is somewhat moist, chances are it does have bacteria so you'll be fine.)
(If the sand is somewhat moist, chances are it does have bacteria so you'll be fine.)
A piece of shrimp, squid or anything of that nature should be fine. Getting ammonia into the tank is never the problem, it's usually the bacteria. You really don't have anything to lose by trying it. Worst case scenario, there's a high amount of ammonia in the tank with no bacteria. You add the bacteria later and it works. I'd go ahead with it.
Noah707
Community Member
How would there be no ammonia spike if you're saying the tank would be ready for fish? Chaeto won't consume ammonia, and even if it did it wouldn't make the tank cycled.. In heavily planted FW tanks a "silent cycle" can be done by stocking tons of fast growing plants and under stocking fish. Doesn't really work like that with SW. The Molly would be producing ammonia,
as well as the food you feed it, so I don't see how there'd be no ammonia spike.
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beaslbob
2500 Club Member
In either freshwater or saltwater or dirt for that matter, Most plant life (with the exception of things like cyano and soybeans that can fix nitrogen gas) prefer to consume ammonia for nitrogen vrs nitrates.
So during the cycling process, the macros in a marine tank will consume the ammonia not being reduced by the aerobic bacteria. One possible side effect is that nitrates will actually spike.
Sure the molly would produce ammonia. the macros will consume that and the co2 returning fish food and oxygen. Same as the silent cycle in Fw tanks. And for exactly the same reason.
my .02
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beaslbob
2500 Club Member
You are simply incorrect. Macros not only consume ammonia directly but actually prefer to consume ammonia for nitrogen over nitrates.
my .02
mcarroll
10K Club member
Macro algae like chaeto also has enormous surface area to support nitrifying bacteria, and also act as haven for other microfilm fauna. If you have access to cheato, it's a great way to seed your tank. As is the Molly method, for a big enough tank like yours. (Or both, as suggested.)
No matter the method, it's important to realize that these bacteria are omnipresent in the environment and would have found enough nutrients on the dry rock to colonize this tank within a few weeks without any help at all.
The key is to know you have to build their population gradually by stocking the tank up slowly. When you overwhelm them, you get an ammonia spike or buildup.
No matter the method, it's important to realize that these bacteria are omnipresent in the environment and would have found enough nutrients on the dry rock to colonize this tank within a few weeks without any help at all.
The key is to know you have to build their population gradually by stocking the tank up slowly. When you overwhelm them, you get an ammonia spike or buildup.
Noah707
Community Member
But for it to work like that you'd have to have a huge amount of chaeto.. I doubt a small bunch would be enough to keep the ammonia at zero, if it did consume ammonia for that matter. Also if you're saying it'll use up all the ammonia why not either put the chemicals in directly or use something dead?
Noah707
Community Member
The way silent cycles work (I'm pretty sure) are initially the tank is basically uncycled (no beneficial bacteria) but since there's a ratio of plants, say 20:1, the plants are able to consume most of the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. EVENTUALLY bacteria colonizes, in a FW it would be longer than just 3-4 weeks, most definetly in a SW if you could achieve a "silent cycle".
mcarroll
10K Club member
For (e.g.) a Molly in 55 gallons of water, it should be a fine place to start and build from. The rock will populate and you'll be fine! 
Is there a need to rush it?
Countless biofilters have been started without human assistance. Cultured bacterial additives and "dead stuff" are recent attempts to somehow help a process that didn't really need help.
If you do need to rush it, I would caution that you're starting off on the wrong foot. But use a quality bacterial additive made for the intended purpose and follow its directions. Skip the other shortcuts, IMO.
Is there a need to rush it?
Countless biofilters have been started without human assistance. Cultured bacterial additives and "dead stuff" are recent attempts to somehow help a process that didn't really need help.
If you do need to rush it, I would caution that you're starting off on the wrong foot. But use a quality bacterial additive made for the intended purpose and follow its directions. Skip the other shortcuts, IMO.
ReelRednekReefer
Active Member
This guy in the below thread did just what your planning, just in a tub rather than the tank.
Cycling DRY live rock progress thread (with photos)
Cycling DRY live rock progress thread (with photos)
jent
Active Member
I do stand corrected. I found a good article which describes what your saying as well:
Ammonia and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
Still with that said, I still don't think molly's or any fish are a good method for cycling the tank. For one thing you would have to be sure that you provide enough macro to consume all ammonia, and in this case you would only be slowing down the production of the nitrifying bacteria. You would be slowing this down as the ammonia would be consumed from other sources.
Also buying an unwanted fish to possibly stress out only as an ammonia source seems like a round about way to get ammonia....why not just dose it directly?
