Cycling question

[Funwithreefer]

Well, I’m convinced that the whole cycling process is nature’s way of making you pump the brakes from spending tons of money on the seemingly endless supply of things for your tank.

but I do have a question for the cycling wizards on the forum.

So like many other I decided to try dosing with ammonia to get the cycle going. Found some nifty calculators and whatnot to calculate just the right amount. And......of course dosed too much. In hindsight I guess when the tank is 32 gallons and you have 35 lbs of rock, the displacement means there is less water. So that’s lesson number 1 on my new hobby venture.

It’s been about a week and the ammonia is at least 8 ppm based on my API test kit. (No not the strips). I started dosing with Seed on day 1 and have been following the dosing instructions. Then I got impatient and bought a bottle of API Quick Start and followed the dosing instructions. Also bought a bottle of Prime. Some things I read said the high ammonia would either stall or kill the cycling process so I figured maybe the Prime would de-toxify the ammonia so the cycle could start.

Any suggestions on what to do, besides be more patient and spend less time researching this stuff. Should I do water changes to get ammonia down or just leave it. Thanks for the help!

 

[brandon429]

You can't stall a cycle luckily merely wait close to 3 weeks and it's guaranteed to work

Am aware directions on bottle say you can stall it. This helps to cause doubt about what bac do/handle and gets us to buy more bottle bac, for replacing those we've certainly killed...

All it causes is a longer wait for the wastewater to clear the compounded metabolites. Seed is good bac give it three weeks and then change the water to export algae feed, refill, cycled. A stalled cycle in a display tank has never occurred on this site nor any other, although ten thousand API kits would show .25 right now on full mature tanks making them seem stalled.

The real sign of a stalled cycle is never what a nine dollar test kit says, its whether or not initial fish die due to insufficient bac at the 3-4 week mark. It hasn't occurred, they always do fine, only the non seneye test kits claimed otherwise yet the fish swam day by day thereafter.

For a while dr Tims had wrong directions on bottle for number of drops per gallon, a 2 x overdose. None stalled, they just took longer to clear the wastewater out to acceptable levels the cheapest testers sometimes agreed were ready. The problem with cycling is solely how we test for ending proof. The microbiology of cycling thread here mid page is chock full of proofs your tank w be fine by thanksgiving even if you ceased testing and let the current stew just sit there until then

Change water in three weeks, cycled, for everyone, the only way you'll get tests to agree is to use seneye ammonia across the board. If you put a fish in after the water change, it lives.

 

[Funwithreefer]

Great thanks. I wish I could see little bacteria swimming around to know that something good is happening. For now I try to explain to my wife why we needed to spend over $1,000 on a rock aquarium. I tell her good things come to those that wait. She just shrugs me off.

follow up question....I still have a couple more days on the Seed dosing per the instructions. I’ll finish that out but should I continue adding Seed or something else over the next 2-3 weeks? Or just let nature do its thing?

thanks again!

 

[brandon429]

Also per the thread, after use of prime all testing is wrong. It's a test skewer

You could add more ammonia or not, add more seed or not, run it with pumps on or off, run the tank too hot or too cold, and the ends are the same if you change water and refill at 20-30 days. We simply cannot stop a cycle ina hydrated container in a home, only your interim testing is affected by choosing among those actions. I'd let it ride then change you have fed it plenty. The 8 ppm is a prime misread.
Bacteria get their own feed in hydrated systems by natural daily contaminants and from non filter bac in close proximity, so whether we feed them or not is for our own good feeling lol bac been working independently from us and will continue to do so

See our thread for example links other 10 people reporting 8ppm after using prime, which causes false nitrite and ammonia readings. You don't have anywhere near that level.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Great thanks. I wish I could see little bacteria swimming around to know that something good is happening. For now I try to explain to my wife why we needed to spend over $1,000 on a rock aquarium. I tell her good things come to those that wait. She just shrugs me off.

follow up question....I still have a couple more days on the Seed dosing per the instructions. I’ll finish that out but should I continue adding Seed or something else over the next 2-3 weeks? Or just let nature do its thing?

thanks again!

I’m not really familiar with the seed product you are using. It is also unclear whether you actually used the prime or just purchased it.

An ammonia reading of ≥ 8 ppm is really high. I would recommend a 50% water change to bring the ammonia down to a more reasonable level. Then, I would let nature take its course. Like @brandon429 said, it will cycle in 3-4 weeks.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Also per the thread, after use of prime all testing is wrong. It's a test skewer

You could add more ammonia or not, add more seed or not, run it with pumps on or off, run the tank too hot or too cold, and the ends are the same if you change water and refill at 20-30 days. We simply cannot stop a cycle ina hydrated container in a home, only your interim testing is affected by choosing among those actions. I'd let it ride then change you have fed it plenty. The 8 ppm is a prime misread.
Bacteria get their own feed in hydrated systems by natural daily contaminants and from non filter bac in close proximity, so whether we feed them or not is for our own good feeling lol bac been working independently from us and will continue to do so

@brandon429, I read his post as the 8 ppm or more of ammonia was before he purchased the prime and that he had overdosed the ammonia accidentally by not accounting for the rock displacing the amount of water.

 

[Funwithreefer]

thanks guys. For clarity. I actually dosed too much ammonia and resulted in 8 ppm on the test kit. Then I went out and bought the prime and dosed it with Prime. Some of the stuff I was reading said that at that level of ammonia it would actually kill off any good bacteria and that Prime would neutrify the toxic effect and allow bacteria to consume it. I also did do about a 7 gallon water change last night. I’m gonna test it again this morning just for ***** and giggles but I’m not expecting anything.

so based on the above, do we think do 50 percent water change or let it ride??

 

[Funwithreefer]

@brandon429, I read his post as the 8 ppm or more of ammonia was before he purchased the prime and that he had overdosed the ammonia accidentally by not accounting for the rock displacing

@brandon429, I read his post as the 8 ppm or more of ammonia was before he purchased the prime and that he had overdosed the ammonia accidentally by not accounting for the rock displacing the amount of water.

@IslandLifeReef , you are correct.

 

[don_chuwish]

I agree about the large water change, it certainly won't hurt.

 

[Funwithreefer]

So....back to the RODI mill for some liquid gold. I figure at barely a week in of cycling, a water change wouldn’t hurt anything and hopefully would get ammonia down to better levels.

 

[brandon429]

I doubt the non test strip is able to read anything accurate above 2 ppm. You'll be ok for sure

We collected ten different threads all stating the same max ppm all from differing initial doses, these are purely ballpark guesses. Seneye isn't though

It's ok to change water, and if you didn't it's the same outcome since nobody has ever failed to carry initial bioloading given full submersion time. Interim variations don't affect final outcome, we show.

 

[Funwithreefer]

I doubt the test strip is able to read anything accurate above 2 ppm. You'll be ok for sure

actually using the API Master test kit, not the strips. But I get they can be inaccurate

 

[brandon429]

Yes I had caught that initially in the description wasn't done editing. It's always API and Red Sea. Never seneye, soon those will catch on and how we measure cycles and understand bac will change

The change will be everyone's tank following the old school cycling charts by at minimum those 20/30 day actions (such as ammonia drop and then nitrite is zero from there on out/tied to what ammonia would measure) vs claiming to take longer or be affected by water prep dosers

If you really want to hear something crazy, your tank can likely pass a cycle test ending ammonia assessment right now per Dr Reefs study of the bac you've already used. They don't take 30 days...he shows.

The key is wastewater testing vs clean water testing, we wouldn't use the current water table for proof.
A full water change leaves only bac on the surface to be tested against the feared, and constantly claimed, tank stall...

The 20-30 day blanket timing is a gross overshoot we use so that all assembly variables have time to streamline and 100% of new fish live just fine. Precision testing on clean water is the actual way to assess when your cycle is done if you want to be able to make api reveal the true endpoint.

Per current claims, 8 ppm ammonia makes an acceptable antibacterial soln

Lemme search something brb.
Yep, search out required ppm for ammonia sanitization we have certainly got some wiggle room

The bacteria in the actual bottle suspension have no protective insulation and are weak. As soon as you release into a tank and give a few days, a biofilm occurs on submerged surfaces and now they tolerate some guy draining his whole reef 30 mins in the air though right now online it says filter bac will die when exposed to air. Or spikes of various params, the biofilm insulates from drastic changes and the nitrifiers tolerate vastly more challenging situations

 

[Mykawl]

Most people dose ammonia to 2 ppm, I believe the stall for nitrite occurs around 5ppm I think it’s the same for ammonia, the water change should have got you closer to 5, now you just wait.

As for the bacteria in a bottle you can add as much as you want some dose some just dump it all in, the prime is not needed. Save it for any fresh saltwater you mix up if you’re not getting 0 tds ro/di.

besides that prime is great if you add too many fish to fast but even better just avoid that and add 1 fish at a time.Your areright if you don’t get impatient you will save time money and headache

 

[Funwithreefer]

Thanks for all the input. I never was good at science/chemistry, but I feel like I could at least pass a high school chemistry class now. Haha. Stay tuned for progress on the coming weeks.