Cycling Questions

[beaslbob]

If you have algae in the system (which doesn't appear to be the case) it is possible the algae will consume the ammonia directly preventing the cycling spikes. But with some organics present you can get a small nitrate bump. Then, as the aerobic bacteria builds up, the algae consumes less and less ammonia and more nitrates for nitrogen. So eventually the nitrates jump back down.

Because of that I recommend you start tanks with macro algaes (in a refugium which can be just a simple partition) right from the start.
I also like the idea of using a common FW male molly to cycle the tank. After a week of running the tank fishless with macros I acclimate the molly slowly to saltwater and don't add food for a week. Then add some female mollies and start feeding a single flake per day.

After a few more weeks you could remove the mollies and add the more expensive marine only fish.

But that's just my .02

 

[beaslbob]

just responed on swf LOL

 

[CodyRVA]

If you have algae in the system (which doesn't appear to be the case) it is possible the algae will consume the ammonia directly preventing the cycling spikes. But with some organics present you can get a small nitrate bump. Then, as the aerobic bacteria builds up, the algae consumes less and less ammonia and more nitrates for nitrogen. So eventually the nitrates jump back down.

Because of that I recommend you start tanks with macro algaes (in a refugium which can be just a simple partition) right from the start.
I also like the idea of using a common FW male molly to cycle the tank. After a week of running the tank fishless with macros I acclimate the molly slowly to saltwater and don't add food for a week. Then add some female mollies and start feeding a single flake per day.

After a few more weeks you could remove the mollies and add the more expensive marine only fish.

But that's just my .02

Not going to comment on the algae references to the cycling process, but you do not need a refugium to cycle a tank, period. Using fish to cycle a tank is harmful to the fish, regardless of how hardy they are; and very few hobbyist today use this outdated method.

 

[beaslbob]

Not going to comment on the algae references to the cycling process, but you do not need a refugium to cycle a tank, period. Using fish to cycle a tank is harmful to the fish, regardless of how hardy they are; and very few hobbyist today use this outdated method.

Which is really a shame.
With macros from the start, the fish feels no stress as the macros consume ammonia and co2 and return oxygen. So all the fish experiences is a healthy environment.

But then perhaps you can give a more "updated" method which accomplishes the same. Dosing ammonia and raw shrimps rotting the in the tank accomplish neither.

but that's just my "outdated" idea. Worth at most .02

 

[drcole]

Not going to comment on the algae references to the cycling process, but you do not need a refugium to cycle a tank, period. Using fish to cycle a tank is harmful to the fish, regardless of how hardy they are; and very few hobbyist today use this outdated method.

As a veterinarian, I have no interest in using a fish to cycle the tank. I don't feel it's right to have an animal if you aren't willing to provide a healthy life for it.

 

[jetmaker]

Which is really a shame.
With macros from the start, the fish feels no stress as the macros consume ammonia and co2 and return oxygen. So all the fish experiences is a healthy environment.

But then perhaps you can give a more "updated" method which accomplishes the same. Dosing ammonia and raw shrimps rotting the in the tank accomplish neither.

but that's just my "outdated" idea. Worth at most .02

Dosing ammonia will definitely cycle a tank been there done it

 

[CodyRVA]

Which is really a shame.
with macros from the start, the fish feels no stress as the macro consume ammonia and co2 and return oxygen. So all the fish experiences is a healthy environment.

But then perhaps you can give a more "updated" method which accomplishes the same. Dosing ammonia and raw shrimps rotting the in the tank accomplish neither.

but that's just my "outdated" idea. Worth at most .02

I meant no offense, the point is... you don't need macro algae or a fish to cycle a tank. Even if you claim the fish to be in a safe environment, if it were, then you could add any fish with macro algae while cycling... an idol, tang, trigger, etc. I mean think about it, if that was true, we wouldn't need to cycle our systems at all, we could just run a refugium with macro right? As many have stated, using an ammonia source like a raw shrimp or pure ammonia will in fact aid in cycling a system. Many use this method. The days of using a damsel or clown to endure the process of cycling are long past. Cheers!

 

[jetmaker]

I also cycled my tank with the lights off to prevent algae build up.

 

[brandon429]

Its possible to use a fish to cycle, change the water or bind any free ammonia such that its zero and unimpactful to the fish, but you'll be bandaiding like that so long it would have been better to simply do a speed cycle in 3 weeks *then digest test to know for absolute certain when you can begin w no harm to nine fishes*

agreed macros are fine to use or not use depending on the goal. Don't ever consider microalgae or green hair algae or cyano as part of the cycle however, we're only measuring bac and their metabolites here. That's a classic mistake in aquarium keeping, to seed ones vast surface area with invaders. nope, hand remove and delete them as they come, having nothing to do with your water or your nutrients.

I once got some GHA in a new tank and I lifted out the rock and used a grill lighter to burn the gha off. I was algae free any other time I saw it by simple caveman disallowance. then we moved up to this:
http://reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/



most people read a couple pages of that madness and think im trying to get you to dump peroxide into a cycling tank. nope

its so you can see what following normal algae rules does for the masses. requires them to seek out madmen to save their tank. you could head that off on day one. its the day you first see the algae, and at no point does your nutrients matter regarding algae taking over your tank or not. that only matters on how often you have to cheat to force control.

Everyone in those 200 pages was just sure nutrient controls would eventually work.

 

[beaslbob]

Dosing ammonia will definitely cycle a tank been there done it

Sure understand.

But does that method consume ammonia directly and co2? and add oxygen? Prevent the cycle spikes? Oh yea you want those spikes.
Sure you can build up bacteria using ammonia. But with macros you can use fish to provide that ammonia and co2 while returning fish food and oxygen.
I don't like cycling with a damsel or clown. Which is why I recommend (especially to) newbies acclimating a molly. Nice to get into practice and have a successful living fish before dropping down money on really expensive fish.
Still just my .02

 

[brandon429]

It is a fact that using macros in a cycle does that good listed above. they are totally ok inclusions for a new or old reef.

 

[drcole]

Today's parameters
Ammonia 2-3 ppm
Nitrite 0.25 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm
pH 8.0

 

[john.m.cole3]

So, how do all those vendors at MACNA set up their tanks inn such a short amount of time?

 

[brandon429]

By 100% skip cycling nice call. Every reef I own was a little macna convention no cycle setup from lfs to my house all at once. Not only were reefing laws broken that day, some driving laws too as I was distracted by all the coral frags while moving them

 

[john.m.cole3]

So that was you swerving around 34th St. that day

But, how would one go about skipping the cycle? I'm about to move and was wondering how this would work? I'm not trying to hi-jack this thread, just was interested in other cycling techniques...

 

[eQuatics01]

You might enjoy this series I made on cycling. Not the best production but I have it my best haha. Also keep in mind that not two tanks are alike!

 

[drcole]

No worries, hi-jack away! Anything I can read about the cycle process is great knowledge for me. I wanted to start with dry rock due to the stories I have heard about unfavorable hitch hikers from live rock. Also have become very addicted to the hobby and want to see something swimming in the tank as soon as possible, knowing that patience is key.

 

[Bob Escher]

Since is great it's breaking everything down to exactly how to do it.
I'm also in the cycle. I removed the shrimp on Sat been checking parameters my ammonia is at 0.20 nitrites are zero and nitrates are off the scale. ( using Red Sea test kits) I been trying to cycle for a while now and I did have all three high but watched as nitrites rose and now nitrates. So I'm going to presume that I'm close to the end of the cycle and when should I do the water change?

Thanks guys

 

[jrose323]

Since is great it's breaking everything down to exactly how to do it.
I'm also in the cycle. I removed the shrimp on Sat been checking parameters my ammonia is at 0.20 nitrites are zero and nitrates are off the scale. ( using Red Sea test kits) I been trying to cycle for a while now and I did have all three high but watched as nitrites rose and now nitrates. So I'm going to presume that I'm close to the end of the cycle and when should I do the water change?

Thanks guys

You would complete your partial water change when your ammonia is undetectable. After your water change, you can safely start adding fish.

 

[brandon429]

John did you move yet I just reread and saw you mentioned that

I move tanks by excluding detritus. I'll take apart current tank in order and clean rocks of all detritus. Old sand is typically cast out and I buy new wet pack either ocean direct or Fiji

Transport all rocks separate from fish underwater and rinse the new live sand perfectly clean of all possible silt and clouding. Set up new tank with zero detritus, zero wait on clouding, you get zero cycle.