Cycling Questions

[glooper]

Hello, first I'd like to thank everyone that's already helped me with my questions/concerns and feel like I'm on a much better path after posting here.

I would like to start out by saying I have a 40 gallon breeder and I have 40 pounds of dry live rock and live sand that I am going to use for my aquarium.

I have a couple questions:

1. Do I need to do a 6 week cycle with nothing in the tank other than rock/sand? Or should I add in bottled bacteria and a pair of clownfish?

2. How long after should I add in my CUC?

Thank you in advance, you all have been amazing so far!

 

[T-J]

I suggest doing a bottle bac cycle. You can ghost feed and/or add ammonia to see if it disappears in 24 hrs. I don't like using fish to cycle.
My last tank I started with dry rock, I did the Dr. Tims bottle bac for cycling.
CUC should be put in after there is something in there to eat. So the presence of algae and/or food that your fish aren't eating.

 

[glooper]

I suggest doing a bottle bac cycle. You can ghost feed and/or add ammonia to see if it disappears in 24 hrs. I don't like using fish to cycle.
My last tank I started with dry rock, I did the Dr. Tims bottle bac for cycling.
CUC should be put in after there is something in there to eat. So the presence of algae and/or food that your fish aren't eating.

What would be the process of doing it this way? I would add the bottle bacteria and wait how long?

 

[T-J]

Here's all the answers you'll need:

30 gallon Fishless Cycle Bundle

Start your next aquarium off on the right foot with Dr. Tim's Fishless Cycling Kit! It's time to say goodbye to old cycling methods like adding "sacrificial fish" or introducing uncontrolled amounts of ammonia through rotting food in an empty tank. Dr. Tim's Fishless Cycle Bundles are designed...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[polyppal]

Read

Cycling an Aquarium

Cycling a new aquarium. One of the earliest topics a new aquarium hobbyist needs to learn is how to properly cycle their aquarium. There is a ton of information on this process and many different methods on how to accomplish it. There are many different chemical and biological cycles our tank...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Jmcg89]

Get some test kits and you can watch the cycle happen and know exactly when it's done,
You'll see amonia come up and go down and then nitrite go up and go down and then nitrate will begin to rise and amonia and nitrite will stay at 0 and youre done!
I used some food and bottled bacteria.

 

[Jdzzl03]

I agree with the above. I think 6 weeks is conservative (probably closer to 8+) for the length of the cycle and would avoid adding any fish until you see ammonia drop and become stable for at least a week. It is better to take your time with this phase and get it right than to rush and lose time / fish. Trust me you will be much happier and more successful in the long run if you let it take its' natural course.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I don't want to advocate for it because I haven't used it, but there is what I think is a better way to start a tank. Here's a link: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/15-steps-to-starting-a-saltwater-aquarium-the-lasse-method.597/.

If I were not using the above method and opting for an old school cycle, I'd do exactly this:

Obtain:
Fritzyme for Saltwater tanks (Bottled Bacteria Starter);
Ammonium Chloride (Super cheap on the Amazon); and
Salifert Ammonia and Nitrite test kits Test Kit

1. Get tank set up, rock & sand in place, and water temperature and salinity stable.
2. Add the Fritzyme per directions.
3. Carefully add Ammonium Chloride in small doses until ammonia tests at no more than 2 ppm per the Salifert kit.
4. Test a couple times a week until the ammonia reads 0. Be patient.

Once ammonia reaches 0, you could do a small water change and add a fish. Nitrite will be elevated, but it won't be high enough to hurt anything. If I were doing the cycle, I'd wait until the nitrite falls to 0 to do the small water change before adding a fish. I couldn't argue that one way is any better than the other though. If you don't add fish here, ghost feeding the tank a little flake food a couple times a week is a good idea.

5. Continue to test for ammonia to ensure it is remaining at 0 and start testing for nitrite to determine when it is 0. Don't test nitrate if nitrite is present. When both Ammonia and Nitrite are 0, the tank is cycled. Do a water change and start slowly adding fish.

I've used this method a lot. It is pretty bulletproof, takes around 4 weeks, and will not put undue stress on the first creatures you decide to put in the tank. This is a natural cycle. It simply adds a booster of the bacteria we want to encourage and provides the ammonia right away rather than waiting for it to build from fish waste or decomposition. .

 

[glooper]

I don't want to advocate for it because I haven't used it, but there is what I think is a better way to start a tank. Here's a link: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/15-steps-to-starting-a-saltwater-aquarium-the-lasse-method.597/.

If I were not using the above method and opting for an old school cycle, I'd do exactly this:

Obtain:
Fritzyme for Saltwater tanks (Bottled Bacteria Starter);
Ammonium Chloride (Super cheap on the Amazon); and
Salifert Ammonia and Nitrite test kits Test Kit

1. Get tank set up, rock & sand in place, and water temperature and salinity stable.
2. Add the Fritzyme per directions.
3. Carefully add Ammonium Chloride in small doses until ammonia tests at no more than 2 ppm per the Salifert kit.
4. Test a couple times a week until the ammonia reads 0. Be patient.

Once ammonia reaches 0, you could do a small water change and add a fish. Nitrite will be elevated, but it won't be high enough to hurt anything. If I were doing the cycle, I'd wait until the nitrite falls to 0 to do the small water change before adding a fish. I couldn't argue that one way is any better than the other though. If you don't add fish here, ghost feeding the tank a little flake food a couple times a week is a good idea.

5. Continue to test for ammonia to ensure it is remaining at 0 and start testing for nitrite to determine when it is 0. Don't test nitrate if nitrite is present. When both Ammonia and Nitrite are 0, the tank is cycled. Do a water change and start slowly adding fish.

I've used this method a lot. It is pretty bulletproof, takes around 4 weeks, and will not put undue stress on the first creatures you decide to put in the tank. This is a natural cycle. It simply adds a booster of the bacteria we want to encourage and provides the ammonia right away rather than waiting for it to build from fish waste or decomposition. .

How small of a water change do I do? 10% or less than that?

 

[ReefGeezer]

How small of a water change do I do? 10% or less than that?

Probably more... just this once... The old school standard was 30% after the cycle was completed. I would still do the 30%, but recently people have been doing smaller ones. I can't argue against that trend. The original reason for the larger water change was to reduce the initial nitrate accumulation from the cycle and possibly reduce algae growth. I'm not so sure it helps though. The tank will go through an ugly algae stage anyway. Sorry I can't be more precise, but I've found that a lot of things I held to be true about cycling a tank just aren't as cut and dried as I once thought.

 

[glooper]

I don't want to advocate for it because I haven't used it, but there is what I think is a better way to start a tank. Here's a link: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/15-steps-to-starting-a-saltwater-aquarium-the-lasse-method.597/.

If I were not using the above method and opting for an old school cycle, I'd do exactly this:

Obtain:
Fritzyme for Saltwater tanks (Bottled Bacteria Starter);
Ammonium Chloride (Super cheap on the Amazon); and
Salifert Ammonia and Nitrite test kits Test Kit

1. Get tank set up, rock & sand in place, and water temperature and salinity stable.
2. Add the Fritzyme per directions.
3. Carefully add Ammonium Chloride in small doses until ammonia tests at no more than 2 ppm per the Salifert kit.
4. Test a couple times a week until the ammonia reads 0. Be patient.

Once ammonia reaches 0, you could do a small water change and add a fish. Nitrite will be elevated, but it won't be high enough to hurt anything. If I were doing the cycle, I'd wait until the nitrite falls to 0 to do the small water change before adding a fish. I couldn't argue that one way is any better than the other though. If you don't add fish here, ghost feeding the tank a little flake food a couple times a week is a good idea.

5. Continue to test for ammonia to ensure it is remaining at 0 and start testing for nitrite to determine when it is 0. Don't test nitrate if nitrite is present. When both Ammonia and Nitrite are 0, the tank is cycled. Do a water change and start slowly adding fish.

I've used this method a lot. It is pretty bulletproof, takes around 4 weeks, and will not put undue stress on the first creatures you decide to put in the tank. This is a natural cycle. It simply adds a booster of the bacteria we want to encourage and provides the ammonia right away rather than waiting for it to build from fish waste or decomposition. .

Hello,

I am getting close to starting my cycle and had a question about adding the ammonium chloride. Do I just add it once or do I keep adding it every 3 days or so? I've been reading around and researching and I know everyone does it differently. Some people say to add more ammonium if the tank doesn't reduce ammonia to 0 after a 24 hour period. Just curious what your suggestion/process is. Thank you.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I just add it once. Once the ammonia drops to zero, a little ghost feeding will supply enough ammonia input.

Be very careful not to drive the ammonia above 2 maybe 3 ppm. I'm sorry, but I don't have a good memory of how much to use. Maybe someone else has some idea.

 

[glooper]

I just add it once. Once the ammonia drops to zero, a little ghost feeding will supply enough ammonia input.

Be very careful not to drive the ammonia above 2 maybe 3 ppm. I'm sorry, but I don't have a good memory of how much to use. Maybe someone else has some idea.

Thank you very much. I will stick to that amount.

 

[Azedenkae]

Hello,

I am getting close to starting my cycle and had a question about adding the ammonium chloride. Do I just add it once or do I keep adding it every 3 days or so? I've been reading around and researching and I know everyone does it differently.

Some people say to add more ammonium if the tank doesn't reduce ammonia to 0 after a 24 hour period.

This is the correct answer here. It may be once, it may be more.

The reason is because you are not just trying to establish nitrification. For that, you only need to dose ammonia once. But you are trying to ensure the nitrification rate is up to par, the whole point of cycling. And for that, you need to ensure that ammonia is consumed fast enough. Hence why the whole idea behind it having to be consumed within a 24 hour thing.

The process is like this:
1. Dose ammonia.
2. Add nitrifiers.
3. Measure ammonia and nitrite every 24 hours.
4. Once ammonia and nitrite both read zero, then re-dose ammonia if it was more than 24 hours and repeat steps 3 and 4. If ammonia and nitrite both read zero within 24 hours of dosing ammonia, your tank is cycled.

The amount you dose depends on the nitrification rate you are after. 1ppm is honestly enough for any tank. 2ppm may be necessary for tanks that are very heavily fed. 4ppm is a stretch goal, for those who want to be super absolutely certain even if something goes wrong (something dying), there is excess nitrification capacity to handle it.

 

[ReefGeezer]

This is the correct answer here. It may be once, it may be more.

The reason is because you are not just trying to establish nitrification. For that, you only need to dose ammonia once. But you are trying to ensure the nitrification rate is up to par, the whole point of cycling. And for that, you need to ensure that ammonia is consumed fast enough. Hence why the whole idea behind it having to be consumed within a 24 hour thing.

The process is like this:
1. Dose ammonia.
2. Add nitrifiers.
3. Measure ammonia and nitrite every 24 hours.
4. Once ammonia and nitrite both read zero, then re-dose ammonia if it was more than 24 hours and repeat steps 3 and 4. If ammonia and nitrite both read zero within 24 hours of dosing ammonia, your tank is cycled.

The amount you dose depends on the nitrification rate you are after. 1ppm is honestly enough for any tank. 2ppm may be necessary for tanks that are very heavily fed. 4ppm is a stretch goal, for those who want to be super absolutely certain even if something goes wrong (something dying), there is excess nitrification capacity to handle it.

I have found that once ammonia falls to zero, there is no need to verify the cycle. All it does is add more nutrients and waste time. One last note. If ammonia is too high it will depress the bactetia's growth. 2 ppm is safe. BTW... there is no such thing as excess nitrification capacity. Bacteria grow to the need. I think any bacteria in excess of that required for the nutrient level simply die. That's why some ghost feeding is recommended.

 

[Freenow54]

This is the correct answer here. It may be once, it may be more.

The reason is because you are not just trying to establish nitrification. For that, you only need to dose ammonia once. But you are trying to ensure the nitrification rate is up to par, the whole point of cycling. And for that, you need to ensure that ammonia is consumed fast enough. Hence why the whole idea behind it having to be consumed within a 24 hour thing.

The process is like this:
1. Dose ammonia.
2. Add nitrifiers.
3. Measure ammonia and nitrite every 24 hours.
4. Once ammonia and nitrite both read zero, then re-dose ammonia if it was more than 24 hours and repeat steps 3 and 4. If ammonia and nitrite both read zero within 24 hours of dosing ammonia, your tank is cycled.

The amount you dose depends on the nitrification rate you are after. 1ppm is honestly enough for any tank. 2ppm may be necessary for tanks that are very heavily fed. 4ppm is a stretch goal, for those who want to be super absolutely certain even if something goes wrong (something dying), there is excess nitrification capacity to handle it.

I agree with above. If you want a complete guide goggle " How to Fishless Cycle a Tank With Ammonia " And I repeat Pure Ammonia

 

[frankny]

Hello, first I'd like to thank everyone that's already helped me with my questions/concerns and feel like I'm on a much better path after posting here.

I would like to start out by saying I have a 40 gallon breeder and I have 40 pounds of dry live rock and live sand that I am going to use for my aquarium.

I have a couple questions:

1. Do I need to do a 6 week cycle with nothing in the tank other than rock/sand? Or should I add in bottled bacteria and a pair of clownfish?

2. How long after should I add in my CUC?

Thank you in advance, you all have been amazing so far!

i set up my 90 gallon reef with good live rock from my cousin's 180 gallon sps domination tank, basically i running water for a week only then start putting in pair clownfish and some easy frags from lfs, been about 3 months now, fish still doing good and all frags grows double size. so i think the liverock is the key, i dont using sand btw. hope it help u a liitle

 

[Azedenkae]

I have found that once ammonia falls to zero, there is no need to verify the cycle. All it does is add more nutrients and waste time. One last note. If ammonia is too high it will depress the bactetia's growth. 2 ppm is safe. BTW... there is no such thing as excess nitrification capacity. Bacteria grow to the need. I think any bacteria in excess of that required for the nutrient level simply die. That's why some ghost feeding is recommended.

Wrong on all accounts, except that yes dosing more ammonia adds more nutrients (nitrates) and that it may be your personal experience that you do not need to dose more ammonia.
1. Everyone's experience is different, and there will be those out there where the nitrification rate established from one round is not enough.
2. It does not waste time, because it ensures that it is safe to add fish.
3. There is a thing such as excess nitrification capacity. You are wrong that bacteria in excess will simply die. Nitrification rate of a single cell is not constant at a particular rate. Cells can and do respire in excess if they have an excess of electron donors for their electron transport chain. When electron donors (ammonia and nitrite in this case) decreases, but to a level where it is still enough to sustain cellular functions, they still live just fine. That's one thing. Secondly, you are technically right that any nitrifier grown in excess of nutrients (beyond what I just mentioned) will die, which is kind of a moot statement because this applies to all organisms. However, nitrifiers take months to actually even start to go dormant, let alone die, when they are starved. So they are still around, and if ammonia becomes available, then yes they will bounce back. So yes, there is such a thing as 'excess nitrification capacity'.
4. Ghostfeeding is inferior to ammonia-dosing, if you are gonna do something like this at all. Nitrifiers do not need to fish food or any source of organic compounds as a carbon source, because they are autotrophic. In fact, they are strictly so, i.e. not only do they not need, but rather they can't use organic compounds as a carbon source. They have to use carbon dioxide. Ghostfeeding will just more likely feed non-nitrifying heterotrophs, competitors to the nitrifiers.

So yeah, wrong.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Wrong on all accounts, except that yes dosing more ammonia adds more nutrients (nitrates) and that it may be your personal experience that you do not need to dose more ammonia.
1. Everyone's experience is different, and there will be those out there where the nitrification rate established from one round is not enough.
2. It does not waste time, because it ensures that it is safe to add fish.
3. There is a thing such as excess nitrification capacity. You are wrong that bacteria in excess will simply die. Nitrification rate of a single cell is not constant at a particular rate. Cells can and do respire in excess if they have an excess of electron donors for their electron transport chain. When electron donors (ammonia and nitrite in this case) decreases, but to a level where it is still enough to sustain cellular functions, they still live just fine. That's one thing. Secondly, you are technically right that any nitrifier grown in excess of nutrients (beyond what I just mentioned) will die, which is kind of a moot statement because this applies to all organisms. However, nitrifiers take months to actually even start to go dormant, let alone die, when they are starved. So they are still around, and if ammonia becomes available, then yes they will bounce back. So yes, there is such a thing as 'excess nitrification capacity'.
4. Ghostfeeding is inferior to ammonia-dosing, if you are gonna do something like this at all. Nitrifiers do not need to fish food or any source of organic compounds as a carbon source, because they are autotrophic. In fact, they are strictly so, i.e. not only do they not need, but rather they can't use organic compounds as a carbon source. They have to use carbon dioxide. Ghostfeeding will just more likely feed non-nitrifying heterotrophs, competitors to the nitrifiers.

So yeah, wrong.

There has been a lot of discussion about what is a simple and not overly time consuming process. Do or do not. I'm out.

 

[Azedenkae]

There has been a lot of discussion about what is a simple and not overly time consuming process. Do or do not. I'm out.

Yes you should be out, you are saying some very wrong things here.