Cycling with high ammonia levels

piranhaman00

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Hello again,

Long story short I made a mistake dosing ammonium chloride in a new setup to start cycling. I am sitting around 8.0ppm ammonia, I added a bottle of dr. Tim’s live nitrifying bacteria, I also have a bottle of Instant ocean bio spira.

Can the cycle commence with this high ppm of ammonia? Should I do water changes to get that down some? Will adding the bio spira help?

Thanks!
 
Do you know the ammonia level is actually 8, or is it 8 or above because that’s as high as your test kit goes?

I’d do a 50% water change and then test to make sure it’s around 4.

How big is your system?
 
Do you know the ammonia level is actually 8, or is it 8 or above because that’s as high as your test kit goes?

I’d do a 50% water change and then test to make sure it’s around 4.

How big is your system?

It’s around 8ppm. I added a triple dose shooting for 2ppm, but yes the api only goes to 8ppm.

It’s 65 gallons. Is it possible for the Bacteria to oxidize the ammonia to nitrite at this high a concentration?
 
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/
Yes you'll be fine



We're reviewing ammonia test kit variance in several active threads, rarely is 8 the number another tester would report and even if it is, that won't sustain it will go down. You have to make cleaner solution levels to turn cycling ammonium chloride into a sterilizer. Any variation you make to directions on the bottle is adding algae feed it's not going to kill off the nitrifers when all said and done

This is precisely when people's nitrite testing goes awry but it has no impact on final cycle either way. Instead of basing your cycle on this high ammonia waste water, per the microbiology of cycling thread you can also just let your current mix stew for 30 days, do nothing more but wait, and then change out the water on day 30

The new water tests great because it's all nsw, so what you might test as peaks/troughs in bounds/out of bounds in the interim doesn't matter one iota, testing is not required to cycle. Water feed and bac handle it fine alone no exact levels required.
Doing the full water change exports the out of balance waste water and algae feed

What's left behind during the water swap is the entire filtration system costing all surfaces as biofilm because for thirty days per one million google cycling charts some ammonia + bacteria water sat for a month and did the chart line regardless if we tested it

No amount of water changes removes that filter scum, forever. our entire scientific basis for cycling in this hobby is based on using guesstimate titration on varying degrees of wastewater. Bacteria have been doing what google cycling charts always said they do, on the dates provided across charts. We've just been testing in the wrong context

The next time we read a cycling article from any author and it leaves out what always happens by day 30 in a boosted system, wastewater vs clean water retesting, and how testing misreads never change what bac do anyway- be skeptical
 
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It’s around 8ppm. I added a triple dose shooting for 2ppm, but yes the api only goes to 8ppm.

It’s 65 gallons. Is it possible for the Bacteria to oxidize the ammonia to nitrite at this high a concentration?

Well, you are unlikely to kill the bacteria in Dr. Tim’s, but it’s unlikely the bacteria in his bottles will be able to process ammonia at those levels, based on what he’s written. Your cycle is likely going to stall for a bit. It’s hard to say how long you’ll have to wait if you just leave it. I’d say a 50% water change is your best bet.
 
i did the same thing as you when i set up my 40 breeder, i used dr tim's dosed for about 3-4.0 api test kit showed 8.0 lol. mine did cycle down to 0 ammonia & 0 nitrite had about 40ppm nitrate, just about what it should have been based on what i dosed to start with & what the test kit should have shown. this took about 30 days & the final readings are with salifert. i put the api where it belongs & the garbage man kindly collected it.
 
i did the same thing as you when i set up my 40 breeder, i used dr tim's dosed for about 3-4.0 api test kit showed 8.0 lol. mine did cycle down to 0 ammonia & 0 nitrite had about 40ppm nitrate, just about what it should have been based on what i dosed to start with & what the test kit should have shown. this took about 30 days & the final readings are with salifert. i put the api where it belongs & the garbage man kindly collected it.


Haha good to hear! I am looking for a different test kit, but in the mean time I’m just gonna let it go and see how it looks after a few weeks!

Thanks!
 
How big is the tank and how big was this bottle of bacteria.

When i cycled my tank i put in a gallon of fritszyme 9 it instant cycled in 24 hours. 2.0ppm ammonia was gone in under a day lol
 
How big is the tank and how big was this bottle of bacteria.

When i cycled my tank i put in a gallon of fritszyme 9 it instant cycled in 24 hours. 2.0ppm ammonia was gone in under a day lol

65 gallon system. I put in two bottles of bacteria rated from 130 gallons total, not sure the volume would matter.
 
Volumn = more bacteria. I found they underrate the bottles. But at least you got that kickstart in there
 
Volumn = more bacteria. I found they underrate the bottles. But at least you got that kickstart in there

I mean that’s not necessarily true, the bacterial cells/mL could be drastically different in different bottles , especially between brands. Hopefully I got enough in there!
 
Little update. Checked the parameters this morning, about 12 hours after dosing the bacteria;
NH3= >8.0ppm
NO2= 4.0-8.0ppm

Happy to see the bacteria are able to oxidize the ammonia. My plan is to let it go for a few weeks before doing a water change.

Thanks everyone!
 
How did you make out? I just over dosed dr Tim’s as well an my ammonia is sitting very high.
 
How did you make out? I just over dosed dr Tim’s as well an my ammonia is sitting very high.

Went all good! I added extra bacteria in a bottle then the “recommended” but cycle went as normal, maybe took a little longer.
 
this helps to show that surpassing the stated 5 ppm maximums really is more of a sugg vs a rule

half the time, our testers are ballparking the measure and we dont even know what true ammonia is. Dr Reef tested it out to verified 8 ppm and bottle bac still worked.
 
I hope I can link other forum??

I discuss it more here in detail.

 
you can link any forum in reefing you like, or any aquarium forum, we're open minded here.

reefcentral.com
see how that's allowed vs a bunch of x's? = creative thinkers abound here, we're free to use references. awesome

im reading your link
B
 
you can link any forum in reefing you like, or any aquarium forum, we're open minded here.

reefcentral.com
see how that's allowed vs a bunch of x's? = creative thinkers abound here, we're free to use references. awesome

im reading your link
B

Lol you know what I’m talking about then :)

The last post shows the timeline I had.
 
I fully expected everyone to assume the bac are dead/can't take above 5 ppm

that's not the case, that poster RD is amazing wow
kudos to solid science at monsterfish forum and also on their chemistry, I had never heard of a Schiff variation of ammonia thats amazing. I like that forum, my reefbowl has a page there ha nice. those guys were welcoming to my little saltwater reef, though any of their fish could eat the whole bowl in one gulp.

Its neat to see we have variation allowance for cycles, they dont stop or slow appreciably.
 

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