Cycling with Ocean Direct ONLY?

[Steelheader09]

So im getting ready to start cycling my new tank. I was given some Ocean Direct sand and decided to try to cycle using just that (at the reccomendation of BRS) and not adding the Microbacter Start I have. I am gonna dose Brightwell Quikcycl to get it going. Anyone have any experience with this method. I know BRS is hinting at doing a series on it but i want to see what others have experienced.

 

[brandon429]

we just recently verified a cycle completed by simply adding water to rocks and waiting sixty days. Nature did the feeding and inoculation it was a free, wait based cycle.

your way will work, as that is adding something on top of the free method, the only variable you’re adjusting is the wait variable the cycle will still complete even if you add literally no form of boosting. Sand has been found to be low in cycling bac, so defer to the timeframes on the cycling bottle bac for the start date. And if you don’t add the bac, whatever surface area you have in contact will be cycled in sixty days.


recommend: forego what you’ve read from brs.


go to petsmart and buy a seven dollar bottle of bio spira and add it, poof you’re instantly ready. There’s no need for cycle wait times in 2021 the hidden risk is disease and vectoring inputs for disease, we no longer wonder if a certain cycle will complete the issue is on what day does the arrangement complete by


all cycles have a pre determined completion date already known before you set up the tank, and none vary past that time frame which is made based on the boosts used or not. This rule allows Reefapalooza Florida to start and end on time and sell a bunch of frags from 100% cycled systems.

A fully unboosted free of charge wait cycle is done in under two months.

here’s how cycling works if we want to be ready to reef by May 27th for example:

- move cured live rocks from a pet store to home on that date, it’s skip cycled.

-add biospira on that date, its cycled.

-Have Kp aquatics rock, gulf rock, TBS rock (uncured) delivered by may 17th and have them doing a ten day cure, move over on 27th the reverse cycle w be completed

-start a two month free wait cycle on march 27th

-add Fritz or dr Tims or bio spira on May 27th you’re still cycled, we tested those with seneye and they instantly control ammonia. It’s not that we dose them, add fish, the bac have a long lag wake up time, fish are burned in the interim and barely make it (this is what all forums think happens with fish-in bottle bac cycles) the truth is we add the bac, add fish, nh3 is instantly controlled, fish are fine, and disease is now set in the tank to wipe out most fish by September. Every optional arrangement for a cycle will work they each have different pre determined start dates, as no cycle stalls in reefing they all 100% complete on the pre determined date.


the day that rule fails we can expect no more aquarium conventions.

 

[brandon429]

PS: api disagrees with everything I’ve said. As far as api goes, everyone who just set up at RAP was only 99% cycled and they barely, luckily, might not happen next time made it.

 

[Steelheader09]

we just recently verified a cycle completed by simply adding water to rocks and waiting sixty days. Nature did the feeding and inoculation it was a free, wait based cycle.

your way will work, as that is adding something on top of the free method, the only variable you’re adjusting is the wait variable the cycle will still complete even if you add literally no form of boosting. Sand has been found to be low in cycling bac, so defer to the timeframes on the cycling bottle bac for the start date. And if you don’t add the bac, whatever surface area you have in contact will be cycled in sixty days.


recommend: forego what you’ve read from brs.


go to petsmart and buy a seven dollar bottle of bio spira and add it, poof you’re instantly ready. There’s no need for cycle wait times in 2021 the hidden risk is disease and vectoring inputs for disease, we no longer wonder if a certain cycle will complete the issue is on what day does the arrangement complete by


all cycles have a pre determined completion date already known before you set up the tank, and none vary past that time frame which is made based on the boosts used or not. This rule allows Reefapalooza Florida to start and end on time and sell a bunch of frags from 100% cycled systems.

A fully unboosted free of charge wait cycle is done in under two months.

here’s how cycling works if we want to be ready to reef by May 27th for example:

- move cured live rocks from a pet store to home on that date, it’s skip cycled.

-add biospira on that date, its cycled.

-Have Kp aquatics rock, gulf rock, TBS rock (uncured) delivered by may 17th and have them doing a ten day cure, move over on 27th the reverse cycle w be completed

-start a two month free wait cycle on march 27th

-add Fritz or dr Tims or bio spira on May 27th you’re still cycled, we tested those with seneye and they instantly control ammonia. It’s not that we dose them, add fish, the bac have a long lag wake up time, fish are burned in the interim and barely make it (this is what all forums think happens with fish-in bottle bac cycles) the truth is we add the bac, add fish, nh3 is instantly controlled, fish are fine, and disease is now set in the tank to wipe out most fish by September. Every optional arrangement for a cycle will work they each have different pre determined start dates, as no cycle stalls in reefing they all 100% complete on the pre determined date.


the day that rule fails we can expect no more aquarium conventions.

I guess my concern was the bottle bacteria out competing the ocean bacteria. BRS claimed that the ocean bacteria may be healthier for the tank in the long run vs those that come in a bottle. I have always used bottle bacteria without issue. Im just looking for best practice i guess.

 

[brandon429]

wont matter, and can't outcompete, even though agreed the bottle bac instructions say the same.

here's how web nerds disagree w that trending above: I have been looking for a single example of a stalled cycle for over a decade now...ie a cycle that didnt complete on time for its particular design. I have not seen one.

reefapalooza, macna, aquashella too have never seen a stalled display cycle where they couldnt sell and make money in a timely manner. 1000% of all stalled cycles are an internet forum report, its not a real event especially where sellers congregate.

folks mix bottle bac all the time and if that was lethal we'd have a stuck cycle. also admitted: api red sea salifert and nyos ammonia kits are not factored into whether a cycle is stuck or not...we use seneye for proofing, or we use fish that swim, act, and look normal day by day to prove a cycle is done.

for contrast, a couple clowns in an uncycled five gallon bucket fed and kept normally wont make three days they'll be dead and the water will be stinky, smelly, cloudy.

Aquabiomics studies/dna sampling of aquarium bac have shown that given a couple years all these initial strains have traded out for the naturally-selected fauna anyway, these trophs we input are just the initial load carriers.
forward this post to BRS they have access to seneye units to verify claims/awesome

 

[elorablue]

It says right on the bottle of MB Start that it is to be used with dry rock and dry sand. I really believe that these companies no matter how big or small want you to succeed with their products. Which is why I read and follow the instructions.
Maybe MB 7 is a better alternative in this instance?

 

[Steelheader09]

wont matter, and can't outcompete, even though agreed the bottle bac instructions say the same.

here's how web nerds disagree w that trending above: I have been looking for a single example of a stalled cycle for over a decade now...ie a cycle that didnt complete on time for its particular design. I have not seen one.

reefapalooza, macna, aquashella too have never seen a stalled display cycle where they couldnt sell and make money in a timely manner. 1000% of all stalled cycles are an internet forum report, its not a real event especially where sellers congregate.

folks mix bottle bac all the time and if that was lethal we'd have a stuck cycle. also admitted: api red sea salifert and nyos ammonia kits are not factored into whether a cycle is stuck or not...we use seneye for proofing, or we use fish that swim, act, and look normal day by day to prove a cycle is done.

for contrast, a couple clowns in an uncycled five gallon bucket fed and kept normally wont make three days they'll be dead and the water will be stinky, smelly, cloudy.

Aquabiomics studies/dna sampling of aquarium bac have shown that given a couple years all these initial strains have traded out for the naturally-selected fauna anyway, these trophs we input are just the initial load carriers.
forward this post to BRS they have access to seneye units to verify claims/awesome

Ok that makes sense

 

[Azedenkae]

I guess my concern was the bottle bacteria out competing the ocean bacteria. BRS claimed that the ocean bacteria may be healthier for the tank in the long run vs those that come in a bottle. I have always used bottle bacteria without issue. Im just looking for best practice i guess.

You should try it and see how it goes! Just do the standard cycling, sans bottled bac.

Presuming it is as it is described, then it could be far better. My main concern is, whether a lot of these microorganisms survived and can prosper in the aquarium - not all microorganisms can just go for long durations relatively dormant after all. Though at the same time, a lot of microorganisms are quite resilient, or do have methods to sustain themselves when situations are not optimal (i.e. packed in a bag, outside of the ocean), and some even more so when other microorganisms are present. For example, Acidobacteriota are predominantly chemoheterotrophs, but some are able to form symbiotic relationships with autotrophs and sustain themselves in minimal environments off of organic compounds produced by said autotrophs.

Sea sediment microbiomes can EXTREMELY diverse after all: https://www.pnas.org/content/117/44/27587.short. Microbacter7 is only a pseudo-analog of it, since it does contain a variety of microorganisms (beyond just nitrifiers), but well yeah doubtful it even approaches the diversity possible in live sand like CaribSea Ocean Direct. Presuming the microorganisms, even if just a small portion, in that live sand survives until they enter your tank that is.

Quick note though: I asked AquaBiomics about what taxa are in what environments, and they do say nitrifying bacteria are found abundantly in biofilms: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/share-your-aquabiomics-results-d.826705/post-8905099, potentially the same ones introduced by bottled bac products.

 

[Gort]

@brandon429 - would you be up for a PM discussion about this? I'm intrigued by your method, but confused on exact details for a given situation.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Brandon explained it pretty well. I think the only thing you gain is saving $7

 

[Gort]

Brandon explained it pretty well. I think the only thing you gain is saving $7

No doubt he *did* explain it well, but I'm just covering my bases. I won't bug him via PM. In my new tank, I'll be using dry VidaRock NSA with dry substrate - either CaribSea or Tropic Eden. I'm assuming some form of bottled starter / system. Fishless / starter fish is TBD.

 

[brandon429]

That arrangement above can’t fail

here’s the simplest possible cycle I can fathom that will always complete, and never need testing:

add cycling bac from two different sources on purpose. Its so that if bad shipping killed one set of bac, there’s no way a completely other bottle will be dead too nobody is that unlucky.

add some grinded up flake food, Dr Reefs huge bottle bac thread discussed why feeding initial strains some carbon is ideal. The ammonia happens by degradation of the feed protein, fish food.


not dosing to 2 ppm ammonia….we do not have to do that we merely need to meet a wait time known for the setup and some grinded up flake feed.

wait fifteen days, change water, this is cycled.

it can’t fail. That’s one filthy mix we are stewing for two weeks all warmed up. It’s a total soup of bac but not so much you can’t just start right then without the big water change.


we like big water changes currently because folks still refuse to accept a ready cycle without oxidizing fifteen ppm or so of ammonia to be sure, nobody wants the dreaded stall they’ve been told about.


this way above is much cleaner, time based, ammonia line from a cycling chart based, it’s infallible if the system isn’t sealed off from common room exchange.

 

[Gort]

wait fifteen days, change water, this is cycled

we like big water changes currently because folks still refuse to accept a ready cycle without oxidizing fifteen ppm or so of ammonia to be sure, nobody wants the dreaded stall they’ve been told about.

What % total volume = "big" water change?

 

[brandon429]

Any degree you want for preference of a clean start. Changing none is no harm, the ammonia cycle already came and went. It's waiting for more continued bioload by day 15 in the wait above so if you want to have the least nitrate start then a clean water change begins that way.

 

[brandon429]

Please update pics here once life is in the tank


We truly want this easy cycling system tested for consistency and accountability. An uncycled system won't make three days with life in it. On day four post pics

Living animals on day four of a fifteen day lead up + begin with life means that ammonia drop from a cycling chart has occurred. None of the cycling charts vary because that's the acceptable wait time especially with these insta cyclers we use

 

[Gort]

Any degree you want for preference of a clean start. Changing none is no harm, the ammonia cycle already came and went. It's waiting for more continued bioload by day 15 in the wait above so if you want to have the least nitrate start then a clean water change begins that way.

Thanks for your help I'm planning to use this method

 

[LAX Noob Reef]

I bought ocean water from local fishshop. I also water change 20-30% using petco ocean water in a box. I also added bio spira from petco. I think ocean water should cycle things quickly. Just do water change with ocean water, and you might have a stable tank in few days.

 

[Steelheader09]

I bought ocean water from local fishshop. I also water change 20-30% using petco ocean water in a box. I also added bio spira from petco. I think ocean water should cycle things quickly. Just do water change with ocean water, and you might have a stable tank in few days.

I have used that before and it worked. However this is a 150 gallon system so i will be making my own saltwater