Cycling

Salty! · Jun 13, 2017

Hi all,

I'm new to this and want to ask a couple of questions from you all. Here's my setup:

55g tank
Heater & thermometer (temp is at 78F)
(2) 800GPH powerheads
LED Reef Light
Reef Octo BH 1000 Skimmer
25lbs live rock (cured)
30lbs dry rock
115lbs live Aragonite sand
Dr. Tims one & only
Tetra SafeStart (used when topping off with distilled water)
Imagitarium Pacific Ocean Water
API liquid test kit

Tanks been running for over 3 weeks. After the second week, I put the bottle of Dr. Tims one&only in and after 24hrs put in 5 small fish (clowns(2),chromis(3). They have been in there for over a week now. Feed a small pinch of flakes once a day. I test everyday. pH is always 8.3, temp is always at 78F, SG is 1.024-1.025. Ammonia & nitrite have always measured 0. And Nitrate is between 0-50ppm. I also have diatoms. Is it possible that my tank is cycled without ever getting a ammonia or nitrite reading and with such a small Nitrate reading? I mean it's been like a week and a half, I would've thought that I would get some sort of ammonia reading at least once and I test everyday. Fish are always swimming around and seem happy. What's going on?

brandon429 · Jun 13, 2017

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

the entire basis of that link is how you skipped the cycle, and could do it again, on command

you skipping the cycle is what I must do to clean my tank. I part it all out, rinse out the filthy sandbed, then put it all back together again sans waste, and it doesn't recycle. my rock often sits on the counter in the air 20 mins or so while im working. when we move live rock from a pet store to home, its often treated much nicer than what I do to my tank on a typical Tuesday for the last 11 yrs.

the simple takeaway is that moving live rock among tanks transfers fully functioning filters. The luckiest part of your entire post is that you said ammonia was zero

95% will have seen that yellow as slightly green, and posted a .25, and the masses would have surely told them the cycle was incomplete. since test kits and readers get it wrong with low level ammonia more than they get it right, and advice givers never assume a test was rendered incorrectly, we needed a non-testing method for cycling and that above is it.

we would require zero testing to cycle any tank using the 40 days submerged method, if we were dealing with exclusively dry rock. your live rock inclusion is enough to run a whole reef tank, and luckily and rarely api agrees, only this time though. that .25 w get ya one day, w cause doubt lol. don't buy in lol

Salty! · Jun 13, 2017

brandon429 said:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

the entire basis of that link is how you skipped the cycle, and could do it again, on command

you skipping the cycle is what I must do to clean my tank. I part it all out, rinse out the filthy sandbed, then put it all back together again sans waste, and it doesn't recycle. my rock often sits on the counter in the air 20 mins or so while im working. when we move live rock from a pet store to home, its often treated much nicer than what I do to my tank on a typical Tuesday for the last 11 yrs.

the simple takeaway is that moving live rock among tanks transfers fully functioning filters. The luckiest part of your entire post is that you said ammonia was zero

95% will have seen that yellow as slightly green, and posted a .25, and the masses would have surely told them the cycle was incomplete. since test kits and readers get it wrong with low level ammonia more than they get it right, and advice givers never assume a test was rendered incorrectly, we needed a non-testing method for cycling and that above is it.

we would require zero testing to cycle any tank using the 40 days submerged method, if we were dealing with exclusively dry rock. your live rock inclusion is enough to run a whole reef tank, and luckily and rarely api agrees, only this time though. that .25 w get ya one day, w cause doubt lol. don't buy in lol

Thank you for the wealth of information. I really do appreciate it, it makes it so much more understandable because there is quite a bit of conflicting information out there. So do you think that my tank is cycled then since there's mere readings of Nitrate but no ammonia or nitrite? Or do you think I should wait and give it more time to be certain?

Jinxs · Jun 13, 2017

I always used Ammo to kick-start my cycle off. That with a bottle of nitrifying bacteria and live rock cycled my 55g in 3 weeks. I've never skipped a cycle but I would say anything is possible. Got some good info off of this thread.

brandon429 · Jun 13, 2017

When ammonia is kept at zero by a filtration scheme that cycle is deemed complete. If it weren't you'd have animal indication of the issue in a bad way, overnite. A neat way to look at your tank is a skip cycle tank is ready the minute it's set up. Skipped.

While randomly dosing ammonia to systems can be harmful, dosing bottled bacteria isn't harmful we can use that as insurance anytime. If it ever needs to be tested though, the hallmark of a skip cycle approach is you don't have to assist the bacteria in any way.

From our thread, a blended cycle was done here. Group A was added with Group B

the carryover filtration capacity of the group B rock and any live sand can run the whole tank...therefore the group A not ready rock is just inert until more bac colonize it. Even if you one day pulled ALL of the group A rock out, even after its cycled, the system will run just fine off the group B complement because its already doing so as we speak.

I know how complicated that sounds but its crucial info, allows us freedom to clean, move transfer upgrade downgrade all without loss

anything beyond what it takes to maintain zero ammonia in a given setup is extra unneeded surface area. add more, add less, doesn't matter as long as the ammonia remains zero and it only takes a little bit of true live rock to run a full system. we deal in massive extra filtration overages in our reef tanks, that's how people are able to rip a sandbed out of their tank immediately, rely on just what rocks do, and still not cycle.

Salty! · Jun 13, 2017

brandon429 said:
When ammonia is kept at zero by a filtration scheme that cycle is deemed complete. If it weren't you'd have animal indication of the issue in a bad way, overnite. A neat way to look at your tank is a skip cycle tank is ready the minute it's set up. Skipped.

While randomly dosing ammonia to systems can be harmful, dosing bottled bacteria isn't harmful we can use that as insurance anytime. If it ever needs to be tested though, the hallmark of a skip cycle approach is you don't have to assist the bacteria in any way.

From our thread, a blended cycle was done here. Group A was added with Group B

the carryover filtration capacity of the group B rock and any live sand can run the whole tank...therefore the group A not ready rock is just inert until more bac colonize it. Even if you one day pulled ALL of the group A rock out, even after its cycled, the system will run just fine off the group B complement because its already doing so as we speak.

I know how complicated that sounds but its crucial info, allows us freedom to clean, move transfer upgrade downgrade all without loss

anything beyond what it takes to maintain zero ammonia in a given setup is extra unneeded surface area. add more, add less, doesn't matter as long as the ammonia remains zero and it only takes a little bit of true live rock to run a full system. we deal in massive extra filtration overages in our reef tanks, that's how people are able to rip a sandbed out of their tank immediately, rely on just what rocks do, and still not cycle.

Wow, thank you so much! You really gave me some invaluable information. I understand what your saying and it actually is a relief! I can't thank you enough!

brandon429 · Jun 13, 2017

im so happy we can put cycles to close, it gives people valid dates to start enjoying the setup literally. if you get a chance would you post your api ammonia reading as a pic, I want to see how clear the yellow vs green is. something has to explain the outnumbering .25 reports, its so rare to get a true zero reported on new setups just curious how the sample looks

nearly all live rock tanks are skip cycle tanks, having a system stop at .25 as reported every single time is suspect in and of itself... random ammonia events should yield random levels. im holding onto this reported zero as if its the last one we'll see for eight months, cuz it is.

Salty! · Jun 13, 2017

brandon429 said:
im so happy we can put cycles to close, it gives people valid dates to start enjoying the setup literally. if you get a chance would you post your api ammonia reading as a pic, I want to see how clear the yellow vs green is. something has to explain the outnumbering .25 reports, its so rare to get a true zero reported on new setups just curious how the sample looks

nearly all live rock tanks are skip cycle tanks, having a system stop at .25 as reported every single time is suspect in and of itself... random ammonia events should yield random levels. im holding onto this reported zero as if its the last one we'll see for eight months, cuz it is.

Thanks, it'll help to have another set of eyes take a look. Let me know what you think please. Thanks!