Cycling?

[EternalClown]

So I have a 75 gallon tank I have put about 60-70 pounds of rock, mostly dry rock with some live rock. It has 2 common clowns, an engineer and two damsels. I have included seed bacteria and maybe shouldn’t have bought the clowns but couldn’t resist lol. Any suggestions where the tank is?

 

[dutch27]

Cycle typically takes 4-6 weeks. You have nitrate which is a good sign, but your ammonia levels are increasing with each test, which is not good for your fish. I think you have a few weeks to go to be clear of ammonia, and you should be considering regular water changes to keep the ammonia down and the fish alive. Impatience in this hobby only leads to disappointment and dead livestock.

 

[W1ngz]

Yikes, 4ppm ammonia. That could be a false reading depending on what test kit you're doing and if you added any ammonia binder or water treatments like prime, but still, yikes.

Big water change. ASAP. Then do another.

 

[EternalClown]

Ok good question was the sure if water changes would ruin the cycle? Thanks for the input! So far the fish seem well but will change to make sure.

 

[EternalClown]

Although the nitrate has kept steady at 40ppm although is that super high? Is it he ammonia I need to be worried about!?

 

[BeejReef]

Your nitrate and nitrite numbers won't mean much until ammonia is 0. Then when Nitrite is 0, your nitrate numbers will make sense.

That's a lot of ammonia and a fair number of fish for a brand new tank. I know there is some cycled live rock, but it doesn't seem to be enough for that many fish. Not expert, but agree with above on water changes. If ammonia doesn't start trending down soon, I'd consider getting the fish out for a few weeks while it calms down.

 

[W1ngz]

The ammonia level is definitely worrisome.

Doing water changes on a 75 gallon tank at the level required is going to be a lot, you need to do a few successive 50%-75% changes on that ASAP if you plan to leave the fish in there.

A better option might be to get the fish out into a smaller tank like a 10 gal. With damsels in that small a tank, I might consider 2 tanks in case someone picks a fight and starts killing. Consider another bottle of bottled bacteria for the new smaller tanks also, since ammonia is going to climb in those very quickly also. Seachem ammonia alert badges would be useful.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

So I have a 75 gallon tank I have put about 60-70 pounds of rock, mostly dry rock with some live rock. It has 2 common clowns, an engineer and two damsels. I have included seed bacteria and maybe shouldn’t have bought the clowns but couldn’t resist lol. Any suggestions where the tank is?

As others have said, your ammonia is the biggest concern. It can start doing damage to the gills of the fish. I would add Fritz Turbo 9000, the refrigerated stuff, if you can get it immediately. If you can't find that, then I would add SeaChem Prime to detoxify the ammonia.

@Lasse, do you have any suggestions?

I would listen to what @Lasse has to say since he cycles with fish and has great success and is considered an expert by many.

 

[EternalClown]

Thank you guys so much. Got a little eager beaver at home he fish store

 

[BeejReef]

hope u hear from @Lasse as well.

Seachem Alert Badges may be a real help to you.
Also, keep in mind that if you use Prime to bind ammonia, it will still show up as elevated ammonia in your tests.

 

[brandon429]

We are about to use your thread in this giant thread here as a neat example of blended cycling (your cycle is done, why=coming up)

 

[brandon429]

from that thread: your clownfish prove your tank is cycled, they'd be dead in the first 24 hours were it not.

only the live surfaces transferred were the ready part, the rest is catching up quickly.

The microbiology of reef tank cycling.

You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...

www.reef2reef.com

live rock can mean different things to different people, but if you mean cured rock from another running system, those purple portions, then that's making things safe in addition to your bottle bac. if the sand you used was wet, then it added filtration bac to the mix as well along with any true live portions xferred over from another tank

 

[eternalsea]

Wow maybe it isn’t to bad after all. It was actually dry sand due to the prohibitive cost of live sand. So now just water change should fix it?

 

[Lasse]

First - no feeding at all. Its the feeding that give your NH3/NH4. Dose large amount of nitrification bacteria like nitrospira. If you go to my 15 steps - you will have some other tips how to get bacteria into your aquarium. But NO FEEDING till you read no or very low NH3/NH4. If you know your pH - you can use this tool to calculate how much of free NH3 you have (NH3 is the toxic form) The picture shows the calculation I did on your measured level of 4 ppm total ammonia

You can see that you are near the limits for acute toxicity. Your notes show a pH of 8.1 - if that´s true - it is good in this situation. If your salinity is higher (it should be) the NH3 amount is lower. But do not feed. The fish is probably stressed - you are in a situation - it is very difficult to give advises. Moving into new aquarium could be worse, changing water too (new mixed water is stressful) If they do not show any signs of problems - it can be better to let it works out. But you are the one that need to take the decision what to do. BUT DO NOT FEED in this situation.

If you decide to ride the serpent - let the light be of, do not stress the fish and try to lower the temperature below 25 degree C, run your skimmer with as much air as possible - without skimmer cup if necessary in order to get as much air as possible - and do not feed. If your pH will get lower - it is good - the toxic amount of NH3 will be lower. Much air can rise your pH but in this case - the NH3 must come out. If you do not have a skimmer - let your outlet of your filter make as large surface movement as possible. Its good that you have a foam filter - it will help you in this situation

As long as you test shows NO2 (nitrite) - the NO3 (nitrate) readings is false.

Try to get nitrification bacteria in one or another form and dose every day. When both NH3/NH4 and NO2 are as close as possible to zero - you can star feeding but very, very sparse

Sincerely Lasse

PS - do not feed!!!!!!

 

[brandon429]

haven't you already fed the system? agreed feed will add a large tax on nitrification but I was under the impression you're a few days into this already w fish

was that live rock from a fish tank already running

 

[eternalsea]

Correct in has been a week with fish and feeding frozen brine shrimp once a day. They have been acting very healthy with a good appetite? A couple live rock, mostly dry and dry sand. Although I did use commercial seed starter bacteria Tustday and Sunday night

 

[brandon429]

yep agreed what you describe is a 12-24 hour death zone especially with feed, feed is a huge tax if uneaten portions are left to break down. I too above would've advised holding off on feed or go mega-light for a while/safety BUT the fact you did full-on with no death is the classic skip cycle we collect, and its a testament to the power of live rock. Today's bottle bac alone can make this bridge, so we can't tell if it was that and the LR portion or one or the other. either way, you are in the clear from having seen several 24 hour intervals pass.

ammonia is acute, fast, and is not compounding where water is clear (pics above) and where fish breathe and swim normally day to day. its not even at .25 should any tester say that....ammonia is death overnite, or none, when dealing with a questionable cycle. There is no time a reef tank leaves .25 enduring free ammonia, our tanks are hungry for it. they eat it up fast, seneye monitors show.

Yours is now the second example thread for us in the mixed cycle approach using combo live n dry rocks post #19 in our microbiology thread.

That your fish aren't dead, and the water is clear, is the proof. We don't use testing in that thread.

 

[eternalsea]

Wow interesting, could it be bad testing kits? It is the tube with drops? Not api although not sure on brand?

 

[brandon429]

on our thread we open page one with about twenty examples of mis testing, too many variables to pinpoint issues using titration testers. With Seneye digital ammonia, nobody has issues it shows true zero when applicable. take an ammonia test and post it real quick if poss in white lighting with the card in background. prediction: not purple which is take action now/your stuff is about to die.

its either all yellow or slightly green/classic .25

use of Prime or any water prep in the beginning changes all your readings anyway.

If yours is the clear green, 4 ppm as reported, Id look for water conditioner adulteration and also flat out misreads happen. two of our collected examples are claimed 8 ppm misreads running 2 straight months. w no fish issues at all. I do not know whats up with ammonia testing nowadays, only that 4 ppm sustained will kill fish overnite.

**with the feeding though compounding each day for a week this is one case where slight free ammonia could convince me, but, it cannot just hold at 4 ppm there has to be a consequence for that we can measure without kits. labored breathing, stink, and water clarity are requisite alongside free ammonia when its accurate. Not having enough active surface area registers as an overnite loss event, nobody just rides the death zone luckily for a week without digitally proving the measure. you indeed used a bare amount of live surfaces, but after a week with feed they appear quite ready.

 

[eternalsea]

I’ll have to check that out. It is green but perhaps it’s old solution. I have been using ro water from Walmart for the whole thing?