Danger levels

[Biologic]

Recently got some STN on some of my acros. Copper is a bit high.

Can I solve this with water changes and salvage the STN? I did a 50% water change when I noticed something funny going on. Then I sent off for an ICP. My results are attached.

Also, I wish this was in ppm, and the results always throw me off when displayed in ppb — this is 0.05 ppm correct? It was likely closer to 1 ppm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

That copper is unusually high and I'd try to lower it. I'm not sure on the others (there's no specific OK vs not OK), but the action is the same.

Water changes are not the best way. You may need to strip it from surfaces of various sorts. A copper binding polymer would work best. Cuprisorb, metasorb, polyfilter, etc.

Make sure you have no metal parts in the water. Nuts, screws, hose clamps, etc.

Knowing the source is cut off is important.

 

[Sean Clark]

Are you using tap water with copper plumbing? If so water changes may worsen the issue.

 

[Dan_P]

Recently got some STN on some of my acros. Copper is a bit high.

Can I solve this with water changes and salvage the STN? I did a 50% water change when I noticed something funny going on. Then I sent off for an ICP. My results are attached.

Also, I wish this was in ppm, and the results always throw me off when displayed in ppb — this is 0.05 ppm correct? It was likely closer to 1 ppm.

What company is this report from?

 

[Biologic]

That copper is unusually high and I'd try to lower it. I'm not sure on the others (there's no specific OK vs not OK), but the action is the same.

Water changes are not the best way. You may need to strip it from surfaces of various sorts. A copper binding polymer would work best. Cuprisorb, metasorb, polyfilter, etc.

Make sure you have no metal parts in the water. Nuts, screws, hose clamps, etc.

Knowing the source is cut off is important.

I put some Cuprisorb in. Nothing in the water. Brand new heater. Return pumps are used, but I am thinking the source is from my LFS. I did get some water from live rock bins at my LFS for this new tank. So I called them to tell them to check their water to double check. I might even run an ICP on their water to double check.

I knew something was wrong when I started to see STN and an emerald crab died, my only invert. The corals look drab. Since I did a 50%, I've seen an immediate improvement in health of the corals. Another 50% will half this concentration, and hoping the cuprisorb will do some work in the meantime while I wait for another ICP after the water change.

Are you using tap water with copper plumbing? If so water changes may worsen the issue.

Nope. ICP on my RODI is 0 ppb.

What company is this report from?

https://www.icp-analysis.com which uses MASS SPEC ICP.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

https://www.icp-analysis.com which uses MASS SPEC ICP.

FWIW, they have had some apparent issues lately, maybe growing pains making that switch:

ICP Test resluts new tank help

Just got my first test results back and I need to know what it means big picture and long term. I've never started with dry rock before. I had 120lbs of Marco and some marine pure balls in a 100g poly tank for 6 weeks, used microbacter 7 and some shrimp to feed bacteria. No fish yet, i was...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Biologic]

FWIW, they have had some apparent issues lately, maybe growing pains making that switch:

ICP Test resluts new tank help

Just got my first test results back and I need to know what it means big picture and long term. I've never started with dry rock before. I had 120lbs of Marco and some marine pure balls in a 100g poly tank for 6 weeks, used microbacter 7 and some shrimp to feed bacteria. No fish yet, i was...

www.reef2reef.com

Yeah I figure they are much smaller than the other guys out there. I am giving them a chance. I like the fact they are state side and in Colorado so I can get my sample there quickly. They are not flushed out like Triton, but they are cost effective for what I need to know. It's basic info of what I need for now.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yeah I figure they are much smaller than the other guys out there. I am giving them a chance. I like the fact they are state side and in Colorado so I can get my sample there quickly. They are not flushed out like Triton, but they are cost effective for what I need to know. It's basic info of what I need for now.

Assuming they are accurate, I would agree. That's the critical question, of course.

 

[Dan_P]

I put some Cuprisorb in. Nothing in the water. Brand new heater. Return pumps are used, but I am thinking the source is from my LFS. I did get some water from live rock bins at my LFS for this new tank. So I called them to tell them to check their water to double check. I might even run an ICP on their water to double check.

I knew something was wrong when I started to see STN and an emerald crab died, my only invert. The corals look drab. Since I did a 50%, I've seen an immediate improvement in health of the corals. Another 50% will half this concentration, and hoping the cuprisorb will do some work in the meantime while I wait for another ICP after the water change.



Nope. ICP on my RODI is 0 ppb.



https://www.icp-analysis.com which uses MASS SPEC ICP.

Thanks. Their ICP-OES results tended to differ from the other guys. Variability seemed higher too.

Whether results are ICP-MS or ICP-OES, the ICP part of either technique probably suffers the same problems, no matter the vendor.

 

[Biologic]

Assuming they are accurate, I would agree. That's the critical question, of course.

I cannot wait to see infamous early 2000’s “Salt Study” style test done on hobbyist ICP companies versus a non-hobbyist analytical lab. Where a single standard sample sent to each company for evaluation and tested against a real analytical lab. But I am sure these companies are all well meaning and they are doing good for the hobby. I care do care a lot about consistency and repeatability and hope the results are repeatable.

I forgot who did that salt study, but a lot of people were upset lol.

 

[Sean Clark]

All I know it that I appreciate the extra insite that I get into trace elements that I cannot easily test for at home. As for the more prevalent macro elements go, they are pretty consistent from my experience.

 

[Dan_P]

I cannot wait to see infamous early 2000’s “Salt Study” style test done on hobbyist ICP companies versus a non-hobbyist analytical lab. Where a single standard sample sent to each company for evaluation and tested against a real analytical lab. But I am sure these companies are all well meaning and they are doing good for the hobby. I care do care a lot about consistency and repeatability and hope the results are repeatable.

I forgot who did that salt study, but a lot of people were upset lol.

I will put in a plug for an upcoming report on an ICP OES study @taricha, @Rick Mathew and I just completed. It is sobering but I feel we now have an interesting way to think about ICP data that we would like to share.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I will put in a plug for an upcoming report on an ICP OES study @taricha, @Rick Mathew and I just completed. It is sobering but I feel we now have an interesting way to think about ICP data that we would like to share.

Looking forward to it!