Day 12 is this normal ?
- Thread starter paulrathor92
- Start date
- Tagged users None
vetteguy53081
Well known Member and monster tank lover
Partner Member 2024
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
RGB
Article Contributor
Tampa Bay Reef Keepers
West Palm Beach Reefer
Hospitality Award
Ocala Reef Club Member
305 Reef Club
Wisco Reefers
Midwest Reefer
Fish Medic
MAC of SW Florida
Rock Pool Reef Keepers
R2R Secret Santa 2023
My Tank Thread
My Aquarium Showcase
Unfortunately and I say UNFORTUNATELY, YOU may want to get a second opinion. . . taking a water sample to a trusted pet store that does NOT use API test kits for testing. Although its possible, I doubt it especially since API kits are Notorious for false test results mainly Ammonia/nitrate. You will want to have that store verify and compare your numbers with theirs.
attiland
2500 Club Member
The circle started. Do a water change and enjoy the ride.
you have nitrate in your system so you have full set of bacteria exist in your system. Now you just have to wait till nitrite goes.
check for phosphate too.
Looking at the figures you didn’t use any bacteria products.
You can still pick up one to speed up the proccss
you have nitrate in your system so you have full set of bacteria exist in your system. Now you just have to wait till nitrite goes.
check for phosphate too.
Looking at the figures you didn’t use any bacteria products.
You can still pick up one to speed up the proccss
OREGONIC
Well-Known Member
Looks like your cycle is under way. API has always given me a slight false positive for ammonia. You have nitrates for sure which means you have good bacteria in your system. I would imagine your nitrites will likely disappear in the next day or two. I would say you are good to do a water change to lower nitrates and begin SLOWLY stocking in the next day or two. Start with a hardy fish such as a pair of clowns.
terraincognita
Valuable Member
There's no real question other than a photo with test results lol
So not sure what you want any of us to tell you.
If you used live rock and Dr. Tims do a really really big water change and grab a fish or two.
I "cycle" my tanks same day with LR and Dr. Tims.
Idk why everyone always says months.
@brandon429 will agree lolll.
You've still got some ammonia though, so do some big WCs and test after. But if it's already converting to NO2 and NO3 you're fine.
If you're starting sterile, that's good results.
So not sure what you want any of us to tell you.
If you used live rock and Dr. Tims do a really really big water change and grab a fish or two.
I "cycle" my tanks same day with LR and Dr. Tims.
Idk why everyone always says months.
@brandon429 will agree lolll.
You've still got some ammonia though, so do some big WCs and test after. But if it's already converting to NO2 and NO3 you're fine.
If you're starting sterile, that's good results.
this is like a Nancy drew cycle hunt. minimal input but here's my takeaway
nitrate is spiked fully, Randy says these are likely nitrite misreads but that's still +1 step in oxidation and you earned those numbers while keeping ammonia low (for api) so I infer you did add bottle bac and some sort of feed.
if you didn't add bottle bac, bac are still present either from a portion of cycled live rock or by established media in some way being xferred here.
in dr reefs 90 page bottle bac thread, 12 days covers all forms of bottle bac used.
so, again ur cycled. I know this sounds like a broken record but we don't come across half, stalled or incomplete cycles. we get two options: cycled, or not cycled.
lastly, updated cycling science wouldn't factor anything but your ammonia as important, but given no input we're using the other two to infer bacteria got here faster than normal.
if you dosed no bac, no ammonia, I'd expect the exact opposite of the above. blanks on the tests/zeroes. I read a lot of Nancy drew in the 80s it was my life goal to one day be able to
nitrate is spiked fully, Randy says these are likely nitrite misreads but that's still +1 step in oxidation and you earned those numbers while keeping ammonia low (for api) so I infer you did add bottle bac and some sort of feed.
if you didn't add bottle bac, bac are still present either from a portion of cycled live rock or by established media in some way being xferred here.
in dr reefs 90 page bottle bac thread, 12 days covers all forms of bottle bac used.
so, again ur cycled. I know this sounds like a broken record but we don't come across half, stalled or incomplete cycles. we get two options: cycled, or not cycled.
lastly, updated cycling science wouldn't factor anything but your ammonia as important, but given no input we're using the other two to infer bacteria got here faster than normal.
if you dosed no bac, no ammonia, I'd expect the exact opposite of the above. blanks on the tests/zeroes. I read a lot of Nancy drew in the 80s it was my life goal to one day be able to
Last edited:
OP
OP
paulrathor92
Community Member
I have live sand and live rock. When I started it up just tossed a shrimp in the tank. Am testing water regularly and everything was going accordingly until this spike. The my lfs told me I should do a 50% water change and I did. And this is the test I did today.
terraincognita
Valuable Member
If anything you just passed a test that by using live sand and live rock you've got an instant cycle.
If it can bring an entire dead shrimp down to very nominal amounts of ammonia in a 14 days with no CUC or anything else that's a healthy way to start off a reef tank!
Good luck and Good Reefing!
vetteguy53081
Well known Member and monster tank lover
Partner Member 2024
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
RGB
Article Contributor
Tampa Bay Reef Keepers
West Palm Beach Reefer
Hospitality Award
Ocala Reef Club Member
305 Reef Club
Wisco Reefers
Midwest Reefer
Fish Medic
MAC of SW Florida
Rock Pool Reef Keepers
R2R Secret Santa 2023
My Tank Thread
My Aquarium Showcase
On the subject of shrimp;
Decades ago, hobbyists would cycle their new tank with a sacrificial fish, like a blue damsel. While this method may still be used by some, it's not a good plan for two reasons: 1) as the ammonia rises in the water, the fish's gills are burned by the rising ammonia levels which is unkind, and 2) most people don't want the damsel in their aquarium later because it's deemed too aggressive to other livestock.
Once you fill up your aquarium with saltwater, powerheads, a heater and perhaps add sand for substrate, the next step is to "cycle" your tank. The purpose of a cycle is to create bacteria that will be consuming ammonia and nitrite from your livestock, but you have to get the bacteria from somewhere initially. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker, and lastly nitrate will rise and fall. Once Ammonia and Nitrite read 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.
How long does the cycle generally last? Using the three test kits to measure results daily, you'll likely see the process takes 21 days. There are several ways to cycle a tank, but the easiest one is to run up to the supermarket, go to the seafood deli counter and ask for one large shrimp. If they sell it with the head, even better. One shrimp will cost about $1. Don't worry if they think you're crazy to buy only one; this is not the first time someone will wonder about your motivations with this hobby.
We're all crazy the day we considered getting into the saltwater hobby !!
Leave the shrimp in the tank for 72 hours. That's it. It may even visibly rot, or envelope in some type of mucous. That's what needs to happen. As the shrimp rots, ammonia is released into the water, and bacteria is growing exponentially, spreading into the substrate. The water may even look a little cloudy, which is totally normal and nothing to be concerned about. After three days, remove the shrimp and throw it away. It is no longer needed. Test for ammonia and see what it measures. It should read at the very least 1ppm, or higher.
Test the aquarium daily for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, logging the information on graph paper or perhaps in a spreadsheet or app. The more data points you collect over time will graph the rise and fall of each of these parameters. No livestock of any kind should be placed in the aquarium as long as you have any measurable traces of ammonia or nitrite because these are toxic to fish and invertebrates. Start planning what you'll want to put in your aquarium while you have a few weeks to wait. There's no reason to rush this process. A good solid foundation will benefit your future reef and handle the bioload adequately.
Decades ago, hobbyists would cycle their new tank with a sacrificial fish, like a blue damsel. While this method may still be used by some, it's not a good plan for two reasons: 1) as the ammonia rises in the water, the fish's gills are burned by the rising ammonia levels which is unkind, and 2) most people don't want the damsel in their aquarium later because it's deemed too aggressive to other livestock.
Once you fill up your aquarium with saltwater, powerheads, a heater and perhaps add sand for substrate, the next step is to "cycle" your tank. The purpose of a cycle is to create bacteria that will be consuming ammonia and nitrite from your livestock, but you have to get the bacteria from somewhere initially. Why is it called a cycle? Because the tank will go through three phases: ammonia will rise and fall, then nitrite will rise and fall even quicker, and lastly nitrate will rise and fall. Once Ammonia and Nitrite read 0 and Nitrate is less than 20ppm, the cycle is complete and livestock can gradually be introduced. The bacteria population will increase with the new bioload, processing waste and converting it to nitrate rapidly. However, it is important to note that overloading the aquarium with too many fish initially can exceed what the bacteria can handle. This is why it is best to add new fish slowly over the next few months. The bacterial levels will adapt if you don't overload the system with too many mouths to feed.
How long does the cycle generally last? Using the three test kits to measure results daily, you'll likely see the process takes 21 days. There are several ways to cycle a tank, but the easiest one is to run up to the supermarket, go to the seafood deli counter and ask for one large shrimp. If they sell it with the head, even better. One shrimp will cost about $1. Don't worry if they think you're crazy to buy only one; this is not the first time someone will wonder about your motivations with this hobby.
We're all crazy the day we considered getting into the saltwater hobby !!
Leave the shrimp in the tank for 72 hours. That's it. It may even visibly rot, or envelope in some type of mucous. That's what needs to happen. As the shrimp rots, ammonia is released into the water, and bacteria is growing exponentially, spreading into the substrate. The water may even look a little cloudy, which is totally normal and nothing to be concerned about. After three days, remove the shrimp and throw it away. It is no longer needed. Test for ammonia and see what it measures. It should read at the very least 1ppm, or higher.
Test the aquarium daily for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, logging the information on graph paper or perhaps in a spreadsheet or app. The more data points you collect over time will graph the rise and fall of each of these parameters. No livestock of any kind should be placed in the aquarium as long as you have any measurable traces of ammonia or nitrite because these are toxic to fish and invertebrates. Start planning what you'll want to put in your aquarium while you have a few weeks to wait. There's no reason to rush this process. A good solid foundation will benefit your future reef and handle the bioload adequately.
A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac
This is a testless cycling thread, we don't want ammonia testing here for any job if possible, because we are teaching reefers/readers that moving live rocks system to system does not restart the cycle: many in our community don't understand that rule and feel that any tank being setup simply...
www.reef2reef.com
terraincognita
Valuable Member
Good reading.A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac
This is a testless cycling thread, we don't want ammonia testing here for any job if possible, because we are teaching reefers/readers that moving live rocks system to system does not restart the cycle: many in our community don't understand that rule and feel that any tank being setup simply...
But yeah. There's your answers.
IMPO, I like Dr. Tims with LR for additional Peace of Mind.
There is however a longer conversation about the over stability of the bacteria, and increasing populations throughout every single surface and point of your tank that possibly can hold nitrifying bacteria. And then the whole study and research into corals and coral growing, and dosing, and stability and maintaining parameters. Just to get your wits around having to frequently check Alk and a few other key certain elements, and adjust as your colonies and other things grow increasing demands of your elements, then causing you to also increase nutrients and increased nutrient export. Oh jeez Louise.
And I think certain stability points of a reef tank only come after certain amounts of time. But doesn't need to be more than 6 Months and definitely not years, does a 5 Year old reef tank have probably bigger success of being able to house most any coral, I'm sure. But that's probably more on the Reefer than the tank. It takes awhile to wrap your head around the entirety of reefing. Also 5 Years old tanks generally have bigger liabilities of things neglected waiting to explode (hahaha just kidding)
But you have Nitrifying bactera already living in the tank, so by doing a big 50% WC and effectively reducing the lvl of Ammonia down to Zero and chopping your Nitrites and Nitrates in half, you will be able to safely put living animals and corals inside of your tank now.
There's nothing you need to wait for, Including certain evidences showing forced Dino and other Problematic Algae stages by reefers continually adding nutrient sources and not providing anything else but the Dinos and Algae to remove it by growing.
The ammonia is in the thousandths ppm/ safe zone. If these rocks are pet store wet transfers, no further action is needed per that link can reef
a tan conversion has to be applied to the top post ammonia read, nh3 is a fraction of what’s shown above. Live rocks never permit free ammonia above thousandths and nothing dies off in the move transfer, that was all api misread old rules. That link above only applies to live rocks moved from pet store to home. We would never use a shrimp for that type of cycle, they show up ready. As a matter of pride don’t let a lfs double bill you for bacteria: once as live rock that costs more than dry rock, and then again for cycling supplies you don’t need. Vette’s cycle steps above are for dry rock systems only.
Those tests above are unverified api readings, known to be doubted in half a million posts. They dont all of a sudden become correct here today. But they suffice for decoding a cycle with no context provided initially that’s for sure.
a tan conversion has to be applied to the top post ammonia read, nh3 is a fraction of what’s shown above. Live rocks never permit free ammonia above thousandths and nothing dies off in the move transfer, that was all api misread old rules. That link above only applies to live rocks moved from pet store to home. We would never use a shrimp for that type of cycle, they show up ready. As a matter of pride don’t let a lfs double bill you for bacteria: once as live rock that costs more than dry rock, and then again for cycling supplies you don’t need. Vette’s cycle steps above are for dry rock systems only.
Those tests above are unverified api readings, known to be doubted in half a million posts. They dont all of a sudden become correct here today. But they suffice for decoding a cycle with no context provided initially that’s for sure.
Last edited:
Legit concern about the nitrite it’s spiked agreed. The reason we dont care in the example thread above with years of skip cycle starts in one place is because 80% of the time cyclers input testing adulterants into the system and dont disclose it. For example any use of Prime additive negates the nitrite testing by causing false positives.
in other instances, api is misreading for nitrite (not a surprise, everyone knows how the low level ammonia works and most don’t trust api for this reason)
just because api provides the only nitrite test data we get doesn’t make any of the readings correct, or incorrect.
we dont know the readings even if they’re taken and posted
Nitrite is neutral in reefing at all times, no need to know it here either.
I have example threads handy where twenty tanks fully matured post deeper ammonia readings than initially posted here, that’s as good as zero. On seneye it’ll read .00x nh3 ppm for sure.
in other instances, api is misreading for nitrite (not a surprise, everyone knows how the low level ammonia works and most don’t trust api for this reason)
just because api provides the only nitrite test data we get doesn’t make any of the readings correct, or incorrect.
we dont know the readings even if they’re taken and posted
Nitrite is neutral in reefing at all times, no need to know it here either.
I have example threads handy where twenty tanks fully matured post deeper ammonia readings than initially posted here, that’s as good as zero. On seneye it’ll read .00x nh3 ppm for sure.
@arking_mark
hey can you citizens arrest this cycle for us
Curious as to when you’d assign a start date
Paul
can you post pics of your rock and does it have any coralline on it, or algae or fanworms/ any attachments
hey can you citizens arrest this cycle for us
Curious as to when you’d assign a start date
Paul
can you post pics of your rock and does it have any coralline on it, or algae or fanworms/ any attachments
Last edited:
