DC Pumps: Ecotech vs. Royal Exclusiv vs. Abyzz

[acer]

Lol, well, yep , in the same spot I was. I finally just purchased another Reeflo gold hybrid under $500, put a smaller impeller on, and enjoyed the flow. Yes, it not silent, but much quieter than an Iwaki. With the money I saved I picked up two brand new G4XR30'S.

 

[fftfk]

FYI - the Abyzz is A100 is now on sale at the Coralvue website which makes it a much more competitive choice price wise with the RD3 150 watt pump.

 

[acer]

What your actual head pressure? OK, I figured mine was 15 feet = 11 feet vertical at 1.5 pipe, then a Y spitter = 1.5 to 2 one inch pipe to each corner , then 90's to get into Aquarium. Based on that the Abyzz or the 150 watt exquisite would not push enough water for my 150 gallon. So my choices were the A200 or a 230 watt royal= around $2000.

 

[fftfk]

Well - I'm not entirely sure. I have 50 feet of 1.5 inch vertical pipe, 10 feet of lift, and 8 current 90 degree angles to get to my tank. I've always ball-parked it about 15 feet of head similar to you. I read somewhere (but haven't been able to find it again) that a general ball park head calculation is just to take your height and multiple it by 1.5 feet and that will be good for pretty much any calculation.

Using a pentair calculator (https://pentairaes.com/pump-calculator) it says I need a pump capable of 16.9 ft of head of 2200 gallons per hour. I'm a little confused by this though as the gph is both an input into the calculation and an output. In other words, it has you enter the flow of the pump in gpm (which I took to be the pump at 0 head for 36 gpm or 2200 gph), describes your pipe set up, and then gives you the head requirement for that flow rate. It says I need a pump capable 16.9 ft of head at 2200 gph.

Using my ballpark figure of 15 feet of head, it looks like the A100 is good for 800 gph. Using that number for the input indicates I need a pump capable of 11 feet of head. The A100 is good for about 1200 gph at 11 feet of head. Based on this I think I can expect between 800 and 1200 gph.

Can anyone who knows better interpret that calculator?

Also - I haven't been able to find the head loss due to a reducing bushing anywhere. Does anyone know what a reducing bushing should cost with regards to pump head?

 

[Potatohead]

How big is your tank? The A100 appears to do ~800 gph at 15' of head.

 

[fftfk]

How big is your tank? The A100 appears to do ~800 gph at 15' of head.

300 gallons - I know it is considered low flow for that size tank but I am going for lower flow through the sump.

 

[Potatohead]

No for a large system that would be ok. Of course for ~$300 more you could get the A200 and have a ton of headroom, you can always turn it down.

I think the main thing with Abyzz is the warranty. RD is only three years I believe but Abyzz is ten.

 

[fftfk]

Herd is some real world decibel measurements of the Iwaki vs the Abyzz. I used the decibel X app on the iPhone to get these numbers. Not scientific but I think a good representation:

Baseline measurement

Iwaki are the top of the stairs to my basement:

Iwaki outside fish room with the door closed:

in fish room 3 feet from pump:

Abyzz at top of stairs:

Abyzz outside fish room with door closed:

Abyzz 3 feet from pump (this is more a measurement of overflow noise. You can’t really hear the pump much):

Overall a huge improvement in nouse level.

 

[Cjeippert]

The Vectra's are garbage. I had one fail (controller) right before leaving town for 2 weeks. Had a backup pump that I set up, but if it happened the next day I would have come home to a mess. I'll never use one again. I now have an Abyzz A100 and LOVE it. Well worth the money for the peace of mind with the 10 year warranty.

I just ordered an Abyzz A100 because the Vectra M2 is noisy and has seized up like 3 or 4 times in a year and a half. M2 is powerful, but they heat up and calcium freezes them up. The cost is not a big deal when compared to a few online coral frag orders. It is like an insurance policy for higher demand SPS tanks…at least that is my justification. 10 year warranty….. pump might outlive the tank and myself. Looking forward to not dealing with glitchy mobius as well.

 

[Cjeippert]

The Vectra's are garbage. I had one fail (controller) right before leaving town for 2 weeks. Had a backup pump that I set up, but if it happened the next day I would have come home to a mess. I'll never use one again. I now have an Abyzz A100 and LOVE it. Well worth the money for the peace of mind with the 10 year warranty.

Curious, what Vectra S,M, or L did you replace with Abyzz A100? I am hoping the A100 I just ordered is as strong as my M2.

 

[jake37]

I wanted to ask about pumps - i've skimmed maybe 10 pages of this thread and having a debate with myself. I can buy something like the syncra silent 4.0 (ac pump) for around $130. I measured the wattage usage at 71 and found it more silent than the syncra silent 3.0 which had a measured wattage at 48 (what they advertised). I'm going to test the jebo dc pump (since it is cheap at $60) though like most pumps in that price range they have been complaints about failure in the power supply.
-
The open debate I'm having is whether I should stick with the syncra silent 4.0 or go with something $$$$ like the rd or abyss a200 (which could replace 4 syncra silent 4.0). Across all tanks i will have approx 16 pumps; with the two large tanks having 4 pumps each (450 and 550) if i went with syncra silent 4.0. Of course there is the trade off in cost since the abyss a200 is well not cheap. I could replace 2 syncra silent 4.0 with an a100 but still it is $350 vs $1800. Thoughts ?

 

[92Miata]

I wanted to ask about pumps - i've skimmed maybe 10 pages of this thread and having a debate with myself. I can buy something like the syncra silent 4.0 (ac pump) for around $130. I measured the wattage usage at 71 and found it more silent than the syncra silent 3.0 which had a measured wattage at 48 (what they advertised). I'm going to test the jebo dc pump (since it is cheap at $60) though like most pumps in that price range they have been complaints about failure in the power supply.
-
The open debate I'm having is whether I should stick with the syncra silent 4.0 or go with something $$$$ like the rd or abyss a200 (which could replace 4 syncra silent 4.0). Across all tanks i will have approx 16 pumps; with the two large tanks having 4 pumps each (450 and 550) if i went with syncra silent 4.0. Of course there is the trade off in cost since the abyss a200 is well not cheap. I could replace 2 syncra silent 4.0 with an a100 but still it is $350 vs $1800. Thoughts ?

To the debate question - I still have yet to see any aquarium manufacturer produce mtbf numbers, so at this point, there's very little evidence that a trade-off exists, because there's little to no evidence that these high dollar pumps are significantly (if at all) more reliable than the mid market pumps (or even low market pumps). It's really just ephemera like "build quality" and "mouthfeel" that we have. There are threads on here about Abyzz failures, and Red Dragon failures, and given the miniscule number of pumps these places sell, that's meaningful.

The quality of low/mid market DC pumps has increased quite a bit in the 6 years since this thread started - I'm currently of the opinion that most pumps on the market are reliable enough that two pumps are always going to be more reliable than one. Losing one of two returns isn't ideal, but it's generally fine as long as you have monitoring and don't go 6 months without realizing it.

I'm not a fan of Sicce at all (and the Silents aren't anything near quiet, let alone silent), but I would be very surprised if a single Abyzz had a higher uptime % than two Sicces (with spares in the closet), or even two cheap bottom barrel pumps. Between my greenhouse, multiple tanks, the freshwater ponds, etc, I've probably got 15 jebaos in service and haven't had any failures in years (and they're running in everything from normal reef conditions, to basically pumping solid plant material in the greenhouse). They're pretty nice pumps at this point.


IMO, redundancy will serve you much better than buying a botique pump.

 

[jake37]

To the debate question - I still have yet to see any aquarium manufacturer produce mtbf numbers, so at this point, there's very little evidence that a trade-off exists, because there's little to no evidence that these high dollar pumps are significantly (if at all) more reliable than the mid market pumps (or even low market pumps). It's really just ephemera like "build quality" and "mouthfeel" that we have. There are threads on here about Abyzz failures, and Red Dragon failures, and given the miniscule number of pumps these places sell, that's meaningful.

The quality of low/mid market DC pumps has increased quite a bit in the 6 years since this thread started - I'm currently of the opinion that most pumps on the market are reliable enough that two pumps are always going to be more reliable than one. Losing one of two returns isn't ideal, but it's generally fine as long as you have monitoring and don't go 6 months without realizing it.

I'm not a fan of Sicce at all (and the Silents aren't anything near quiet, let alone silent), but I would be very surprised if a single Abyzz had a higher uptime % than two Sicces (with spares in the closet), or even two cheap bottom barrel pumps. Between my greenhouse, multiple tanks, the freshwater ponds, etc, I've probably got 15 jebaos in service and haven't had any failures in years (and they're running in everything from normal reef conditions, to basically pumping solid plant material in the greenhouse). They're pretty nice pumps at this point.


IMO, redundancy will serve you much better than buying a botique pump.

In my limited testing in a pail I did fine the silent 4.0 fairly quiet; at least more quiet than the 3.0. I'll be testing the jebaos I ordered (model dcp-3000) tomorrow or wednesday. So i'll have a better comparison then; and I guess i should post a comment after i try it. The thing is quite a bit cheaper than either the silent 4.0 or silent 3.0.

 

[Cjeippert]

I wanted to ask about pumps - i've skimmed maybe 10 pages of this thread and having a debate with myself. I can buy something like the syncra silent 4.0 (ac pump) for around $130. I measured the wattage usage at 71 and found it more silent than the syncra silent 3.0 which had a measured wattage at 48 (what they advertised). I'm going to test the jebo dc pump (since it is cheap at $60) though like most pumps in that price range they have been complaints about failure in the power supply.
-
The open debate I'm having is whether I should stick with the syncra silent 4.0 or go with something $$$$ like the rd or abyss a200 (which could replace 4 syncra silent 4.0). Across all tanks i will have approx 16 pumps; with the two large tanks having 4 pumps each (450 and 550) if i went with syncra silent 4.0. Of course there is the trade off in cost since the abyss a200 is well not cheap. I could replace 2 syncra silent 4.0 with an a100 but still it is $350 vs $1800. Thoughts ?

Ecotech M2 vectra would seized up on a monthly basis. So sick of waking up to return pump failures I purchased abyzz. A100. Best piece of equipment I bought. Super expensive but this is my insurance policy! Never failed me once! I clean about 3 times a year. Quality is super obvious when you hold it and take apart. I have a bunch of sicce and tunzes and they freeze up to every 3 to 4 months. I only wish I spent the extra for the A200 as it is even better. Brs has big black friday sales on these where you will save a few hundred dollars, but you will have to jump on them as many people buy these in this time slot.

 

[92Miata]

What the heck are you guys doing that your return pumps freeze up every 3 months?

I mostly buy super cheap Chinese pumps and I don't clean return pumps anywhere near every 3 months, and I've never had one freeze up in a reef tank. I've had a couple pumps stop in the greenhouse, but that's freshwater and they're usually full of leaves and snails.

Is ecotech just that much of a dumpster fire? Or are you dripping kalk into it or something?

 

[areefer01]

Is ecotech just that much of a dumpster fire? Or are you dripping kalk into it or something?

Ignoring Ecotech - dosing Kalk into a return pump is not recommended (as you already know since you mentioned it here). My point is that even Royal Exclusive notes in their documentation to not do this. Then again I wonder how many people actually read those these days

For what it is worth I also fall into the camp of redundancy to include using the same pumps for other jobs like running a skimmer. This way I have redundancy and also a hot spare if I need to swap and one isn't stored away. Can still be a bit expensive when using named and not overseas knock offs. Having said that I did find surprising build quality differences between pumps.

I've used a Jebao DCT- 15000 which didn't make it past my displays leak check. Crack on the output neck. Maybe manufacture defect, not sure. Overall very thin material used so never went back. Neptune Cor 15 and Cor 20. Heavy duty, thick body and parts. Still in service today without issues running 2 returns and 1 skimmer. I am moving to a Royal Exclusive pump (single) for return prepping for a future display change and it is built even beefier than the Cor's. Body to impeller shaft.

I think there are a lot of choices so budget, display life cycle plan, and prevention of failure is key (redundancy vs cold spare, etc). You already know this - sorry. As I read your kalk reply I was like yep - even in the instructions which then got me on this rant.

Sorry.

 

[92Miata]

Ignoring Ecotech - dosing Kalk into a return pump is not recommended (as you already know since you mentioned it here). My point is that even Royal Exclusive notes in their documentation to not do this. Then again I wonder how many people actually read those these days

For what it is worth I also fall into the camp of redundancy to include using the same pumps for other jobs like running a skimmer. This way I have redundancy and also a hot spare if I need to swap and one isn't stored away. Can still be a bit expensive when using named and not overseas knock offs. Having said that I did find surprising build quality differences between pumps.

I've used a Jebao DCT- 15000 which didn't make it past my displays leak check. Crack on the output neck. Maybe manufacture defect, not sure. Overall very thin material used so never went back. Neptune Cor 15 and Cor 20. Heavy duty, thick body and parts. Still in service today without issues running 2 returns and 1 skimmer. I am moving to a Royal Exclusive pump (single) for return prepping for a future display change and it is built even beefier than the Cor's. Body to impeller shaft.

I think there are a lot of choices so budget, display life cycle plan, and prevention of failure is key (redundancy vs cold spare, etc). You already know this - sorry. As I read your kalk reply I was like yep - even in the instructions which then got me on this rant.

Sorry.

The DCT is a weird pump - they released those the same time as another pump (DCP?)- and they were one of the first jebaos to have the motor controller outside the pump (and in the controller) - it's like they tried to improve the guts and cut corners everywhere else (which makes sense on a fixed pricepoint). It's also a decade old design now (2014) - and their pumps have definitely gotten better.

That being said - I don't own any nearly that big - a 9K is the biggest one I own - and most are the 3500-6000 size - so I can't really comment on quality on the big ones. I've had no problems with the smaller ones. They're in all my tanks (and the big tank has 2) and my mixing station and a couple of tub ponds, and the greenhouse, and some of the livestock watering systems, and not a single problem with them. No problems. None.


Like I said - I'm legitimately curious what these people are doing that they're seizing up $500 M2s every couple of months - and whether ecotech's quality is just that low, or if they're doing something strange.

 

[jake37]

Ok I tested the jebao dc3000 and hygger 1060 pumps (i suspect they have the same oem). These were my findings of the four pumps I tested:
syncra silent 3.0 rated 48 watts measured 48 watts; rated 714 gph
syncra silent 4.0 rated 85 watts (measured 71 watts) 951 gph
dcp-3000 rated 25 watt (measured 30 watt) 845 gph
hygger-1060 rated 33 watt (measured 42 watt) 1060 gph
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I though the syncra silent 4.0 was 'silent' and it was relative to the 3.0; but the two dc pumps were like no noise at all - they made the silent 4.0 sound like a freight train relatively speaking.
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I had no way to measure actual flow so that is a flaw in my testing.
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The dcp-3000 was sold by amazon (not a reseller) but required a erupean to usa adapter (very annoying). I.e, it comes with a two prong plug not suitable for american sockets - but the power supply will accept ac current - it just needs an adapter not a converter.
-
I was blown away at just how quiet the dc pumps were - i was expecting the a power savings.

Anyway if the a100 or a200 are massively discounted over black friday I think i'll get 6 a200 to meet my setups but i mean like massively discounted - like 80% off
---
one big negative with the hygger/dcp is that neither have an off switch. When I push the 'stop' button it goes into feed mode which means it will auto start in 10 minutes. I couldn't find a way to actually turn it off short of unplugging.

 

[amoore311]

What the heck are you guys doing that your return pumps freeze up every 3 months?

I mostly buy super cheap Chinese pumps and I don't clean return pumps anywhere near every 3 months, and I've never had one freeze up in a reef tank. I've had a couple pumps stop in the greenhouse, but that's freshwater and they're usually full of leaves and snails.

Is ecotech just that much of a dumpster fire? Or are you dripping kalk into it or something?

Both ecotech and Neptune return pumps are pieces of crap. I just don't understand why people still buy them. The overall reviews on the power supplies are atrocious.

I've been reefing for 18 years. My return pump has never died. I used Eheim AC pumps until 5-6 years ago, then switched to all Jebao Returns. This 5-6 year old jeboa DCP 8,000 and 20,000's are still running just fine, zero issues.

I can buy 2 Jebao and keep one dry on the shelf as an emergency. Then again, the ones on my shelf have been sitting there for 5 years, because the ones in use never break....

 

[areefer01]

Both ecotech and Neptune return pumps are pieces of crap. I just don't understand why people still buy them. The overall reviews on the power supplies are atrocious.

I can't speak for Ecotech but the Neptune Cor return pumps, in my experience, have been rock solid. I've had all since they became available to the public and reliably available through online retail. So give or take a month after launch. 2 x Cor 15 and 1 x Cor 20. No issues at all.

In fact I thought I had a issue with one of the 15's that runs my skimmer but turns out a Strombus snail got sucked up and stuck in my venturi A lot of debugging, swapping pumps, similar issue and thought it may have been a driver before support asked me to check it Totally my error - the clue was the intake impeller which I included an image below. And yes, that pump was still moving water.

I know Ecotech had a major design flaw with either the L1 or M1 upon launch with it seizing up. However they quickly addressed that issue while doing an incredible job supporting the community. At least everything I remember about it. I was going to orignally get those pumps but ended up waiting while using something else.

At the end of the day most pumps do work as long as we are taking care of them, cleaning them, sized properly, and of course not dumping harsh chems like kalk directly in the intake.