DC Pumps: Ecotech vs. Royal Exclusiv vs. Abyzz

[gcarroll]

I am going to guess the Cor.

I have been holding back my purchase on a DC pump for it to come out. It's getting frustrating on the wait, as the rumor release date keeps passing by. Last one was "this is a 2016 product" which was said by Neptune. There are two reason why I am not considering M1. One, I have heard they have a lot heat issues. Two, I refuse to buy from any company that blocks out Apex on purpose. The reason I want to control it, what if I am on vacation and the house sitter calls me and says something going on. After figuring out the problem, the temporary solution is to dial back the pump until I can get to it. Yes, an unlikely scenario, but I want that option.

We should be thankful that Neptune is taking their time releasing the COR. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby!

I personally haven't seen many problems with the M1. I have seen some for the L1 though. Most of those heat issues seem to be due the the particular application that Ecotech has been unable to replicate. Hopefully they will figure it out.

As for the ecotech not being compatible with the apex. They have their reasons and that is their choice. Personally I would never put a return pump on my controller. To vital part of the equation to purposely put in additional possible points of failure.

 

[nbagnardi]

We should be thankful that Neptune is taking their time releasing the COR. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby!

I personally haven't seen many problems with the M1. I have seen some for the L1 though. Most of those heat issues seem to be due the the particular application that Ecotech has been unable to replicate. Hopefully they will figure it out.

As for the ecotech not being compatible with the apex. They have their reasons and that is their choice. Personally I would never put a return pump on my controller. To vital part of the equation to purposely put in additional possible points of failure.

i completely agree that while its a pain in the butt to wait for the COR... i'd rather wait then throw something in my tank that fails!

 

[fish head]

Im running three red dragon 230 watt pumps are great , quiet , and move a lot of water !!!

 

[chaoticreefer]

We should be thankful that Neptune is taking their time releasing the COR. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby!

I don't necessary disagree with you there, but it is still frustrating.

As for the ecotech not being compatible with the apex. They have their reasons and that is their choice.

Absolutely it's their product and their right to control what happens to it. But...just because it's their right doesn't mean it's a smart move. I am sure they are trying to push their reeflink or if rumors are true, they are coming out with a more universal controller then the reeflink, on the level of Apex. But...most people that are going invest in a true controller most likely have already heavily invested into apex, so it will be hard to drag those people over, all awhile, they are losing sells to those people that are stubborn and love their Apexs. I am one of them.

 

[gcarroll]

I am sure they are trying to push their reeflink or if rumors are true, they are coming out with a more universal controller then the reeflink, on the level of Apex. But...most people that are going invest in a true controller most likely have already heavily invested into apex, so it will be hard to drag those people over, all awhile, they are losing sells to those people that are stubborn and love their Apexs. I am one of them.

Personally I feel that the issue is far deeper than that. I don't think plans for building a controller came into play at all. If so, they could have just as easily made the new generation of Radions incompatible as well. The fact is that they didn't. I personally feel that they invested a lot in building technologically advanced features into a pump and did not want to throw those features away by simply controlling it with 0-10v control. Since it was a return pump, I don't think they felt they needed to make that compromise. IMO it is actually a smart thing to not have it running via an additional controller.

 

[FLSharkvictim]

I WOULD NOT BUY another Eco-Tech pump ever again, the only reason why I run one is this is my 3rd replacement in less than 2 years. Not to mention they were properly cleaned every 4 months but the Vectra still broked on me.
I am saving up for the RED DRAGON 3 MINI SPEEDY 80 WATT 8M3 DC PUMP which will push out a little over 2100 GPH which is a perfect fit for a 150.

 

[Terence]

I personally feel that they invested a lot in building technologically advanced features into a pump and did not want to throw those features away by simply controlling it with 0-10v control.

I know this is old, but just saw it. This is completely untrue. If the Radion is not controlled with 0-10v. The Vectra could have easily been controlled with the WXM just like the Radion. Including any pump-specific features in the same way the Vortechs are controlled.

I personally do not know the reasoning, but I do know it was not that.

 

[gcarroll]

I know this is old, but just saw it. This is completely untrue. If the Radion is not controlled with 0-10v. The Vectra could have easily been controlled with the WXM just like the Radion. Including any pump-specific features in the same way the Vortechs are controlled.

I personally do not know the reasoning, but I do know it was not that.

Then I stand corrected. Do you know why it won't work. It seems to be a very similar controller to the Vortech. Did they change something to make it not work? Could it be that they have a chip in the pump monitoring the pump performance that may not have been compatible? I was under the impression that the WXM would take over control kind of bypassing the controller.

 

[Terence]

Then I stand corrected. Do you know why it won't work. It seems to be a very similar controller to the Vortech. Did they change something to make it not work? Could it be that they have a chip in the pump monitoring the pump performance that may not have been compatible? I was under the impression that the WXM would take over control kind of bypassing the controller.

The WXM does bypass the need for a ReefLink and controls Radions and Vortechs. If it works with the Reeflink it should work with the WXM. We actually use the exact same comm chip in the WXM (we buy it from them). To make it work with a Vectra requires ETM to give us permission as well as the commands from the API. Once we have those, we could integrate. We have requested. Customers have requested.

 

[acer]

Great thread - I cant wait for an affordable good DC pump that I can use in my basement sump/fuge up to my 150 display a floor up. Currently using a Reeflo Barracuda- which has worked flawlessly for about a year now, but is not real quiet and although the pump is in the basement - quiet would be nice. I still am unsure on a few things after reading this thread: 1) Do DC pumps use less electricity per gallon pump with a 12 foot head pressure @ 1800 GPH or NOT? 2) Will a DC pump transfer more or less heat in my setup = external return pump with 12 foot head pressure pumping about 1800 GPH? It seems like the only DC pump that I could use would be a larger Red Dragon or the Abyzz - both are priced out of my league.

 

[Terence]

Great thread - I cant wait for an affordable good DC pump that I can use in my basement sump/fuge up to my 150 display a floor up. Currently using a Reeflo Barracuda- which has worked flawlessly for about a year now, but is not real quiet and although the pump is in the basement - quiet would be nice. I still am unsure on a few things after reading this thread: 1) Do DC pumps use less electricity per gallon pump with a 12 foot head pressure @ 1800 GPH or NOT? 2) Will a DC pump transfer more or less heat in my setup = external return pump with 12 foot head pressure pumping about 1800 GPH? It seems like the only DC pump that I could use would be a larger Red Dragon or the Abyzz - both are priced out of my league.

Generally DC pumps are not good for medium to high-head pressure situations. Generally. However, the Abyzz does really good in these scenarios of medium head pressure. I use one at home with about 17 feet of HP and at about 200W (74% setting) I get ~1080gph measured with our FMM and 2" sensor.

And that is another thing - you need to run the right kind of plumbing. Start there. If you are not already running at least 1.5", you should be. 2" is even better.

If you want to get 1800gph at that height (and who knows if your 12 feet is just the vertical - you also have line loss), you will be hard pressed to do it with any DC pump but the Abyzz.

As far as heat is concerned, a good rule of thumb is that 80-85% of the wall-watts used will transfer as heat (basically imagine an aquarium heater of that rating) for these internal DC pumps. Your external transfers heat though as well. I am not sure though at what rate.

 

[jml1149]

Wait, 700 bucks for a Red Dragon 80W pump? And another large chunk of money for a controller? Does that seem a bit much? How does this stack up against the COR? For a pump to just plug in and never touch, DC seems like a waste. I would just get a large AC pump and let it go. If you're looking at failure points, AC should have less all of the time.

I've used two pumps now, a Sicce 5.0 Silent was my original return pump on my 120g tank. I got just about 400 gph through my rigid plumbing setup, which is not ideal, I agree. But, I have a Deep Blue 120, so the vertical returns are 0.75" anyway, and I don't have the energy to replumb the tank to a more reasonable 1.5" or so.

Now, I have a COR20 as part of the NSI program before it officially launches. Terrence can correct me, but I think based on some of the communications, it shouldn't be much longer.

The COR-20 I have running at 58% to 440 gph, which my Apex reports back as 57W, and 60% of temperature. I believe these numbers, my plumbing is way to small and I have an FMM on my system, I've seen videos of FMM bucket tests etc. Now granted, Fusion is measuring at the pump, so it does not take into account the losses at the power brick. But, the brick runs fairly cool, maybe 10W or so if that much? Seems reasonable.

But the point is, if you're going to get a DC pump, why not get one that is cheaper, seamlessly integrates into Fusion, but has a backup system in case of failures? I don't want to sound like an Neptune salesman, but really, I stand behind their products 100%. I can't imagine running a reef tank without an Apex controller attached.

The IQ-Level feature of the COR sets the max and min flow rates of the pump, and stores them on the COR controller. If the Apex head unit fails, and I've tested this, the COR just keeps doing its thing in standalone mode. That's it. So really, you've eliminated the extra failure modes that were described earlier in this thread, somewhere around page 5. The standalone interface is super easy to use, fully functional, provides comprehensive feedback, etc.

One of my favorite things, and I never thought it would be as cool as it is, is that by setting the IQ-Level minimum speed, when you go into a feed mode, you can use the pump to keep just a trickle of water flowing through the returns. This way, when you come out of the feed mode, you don't get the air/water slurry filling the tank, and the associated microbubbles. I HATED that about turning the Sicce on and off, microbubbles for hours after a feed mode. Here, it just comes on a does its thing. If not for the increase in surface ripple, I might not even know what was going on. It really, really is good stuff.

 

[leahfiish]

Question about DC return pumps: when you set it to feeding mode, does the water syphon down into the sump?

 

[Kyl]

Question about DC return pumps: when you set it to feeding mode, does the water syphon down into the sump?

Depends how your return plumbing into the tank is handled; are any siphon breaks installed, check valves, etc. One of the features noted in a controller-specific pump is that you can dial in the return flow level to barely input in the tank, so it doesn't result in a back siphon while in a "feed" mode.

That's going to be the largest reason why I go with that type of solution, hate having the sump fill up and then deal with clearing things out for the next few hours when some random detritus has been stirred up then blown back into the DT. I realize that brings with it some degree of 'failure point' increase, but feel it's very much worth it. If as noted the 20 can operate in fall-back flawlessly it will probably sway the purchase to that rather than the 1link focused -15.

 

[jml1149]

If you have an Apex Classic, you either need to buy a separate 1link module or you have to get the 20. I don't know what the price difference is going to be, but one thing I've learned in this hobby, any vendor aside, is that it's easier to go big up front, then try and shave a couple bucks here or there.

Like my RODI unit. I was cheap and bought a spectrapure 90gpd refurb unit. Great for what it is. But in a years time, I added two additional canisters, one for a second carbon and the other polishing, added the flush valve, added the in line TDS meter, added the float valve to my container. In that year I was RIPPING through DI cartridges like you read about. After all upgrades, my TDS at the output of RO and input of DI went from 45 to 13 and my cartridges last 3 months instead of 3 weeks.

Long story short, get the 20. You won't regret it. Even if you install on your 20g nano, and dial it back down.

I'm currently testing in standalone mode, I'll try and get a video of the fallback mode this weekend.

 

[jml1149]

Question about DC return pumps: when you set it to feeding mode, does the water syphon down into the sump?

NO. That's the awesome thing about this. It seems trivial, but when I first saw it in action, I was like this is how this should work. It just clicked.

So for my install, I set my MAX speed to 58%, and my MIN speed to 5%. I get no water flowing back down my returns anymore during a feed mode.

 

[leahfiish]

NO. That's the awesome thing about this. It seems trivial, but when I first saw it in action, I was like this is how this should work. It just clicked.

So for my install, I set my MAX speed to 58%, and my MIN speed to 5%. I get no water flowing back down my returns anymore during a feed mode.

But you can only do this with some kind of controller like an apex right?
Basically, I'm considering upgrading my return pump from a loud AC pump to a DC pump that I can use a feeding mode for. But I don't want my skimmer to go crazy from increasing the water level and I don't plan on getting a controller anytime soon.

 

[jml1149]

No. That's the great thing about the COR20. And again, I'm not trying to sound like a Neptune salesman. But you can do this with the COR20 stand alone. No Apex required. I'm literally running in that configuration as I type this. I set the MIN and MAX via the buttons on the COR controller, not via Apex, and I get the exact feed mode you describe. Right now my COR is not connected to Apex or Fusion.

It's super easy to set up as well. There are only two buttons, which makes for a really simple interface, and the COR indicator lights up several colors to provide feedback. I don't have a ton of experience with DC pumps, but I can't imagine this interface being any easier.

 

[jaws789832]

Yes and no. Some of the answers here are a bit misleading. Your sump still fills up with water when you turn the pump down but it only drains down to the overflow level. there is no back syphon but the pump is no longer keeping up with the flow of the overflow. In theory you could drop your return line lower into the tank but I would advise against this because you will still need to turn the pump off on occaisions to clean things and whatno and the occaisional power loss will still allow a backsyphon. The feed mode makes it so you don't get any bubbles flowing when feed mode is over though because there is no air in the line. Its a way smoother transition from feeding tank so no food goes over the overflow to full tank after feed mode

 

[jaws789832]

I can't bash the ecotech M1, as it has been a great pump with no issues. I am on the NSI for the Cor 15 at the moment and it has been up and running for about 4 weeks now. So far it works every bit as good as the M1, with a little less flow as advertised. It was super simple to set up and integrate into my apex fusion. Some of the differences between the 2, the power supply on the COR does not seem to get as hot even though I am running it at 100% (as opposed to the 80% I ran the M1 at). I was too cheap and too stupid to get the reef link from ecotech ( I am not very tech savy and setting up my apex years ago was hard enough that I didn't want to have to go through that again with another platform) so I couldn't use all the features on the M1 but with the COR it integrates right into the apex and you get all the bells and whistles out of the box (feed modes, variable speeds ect). So far the COR has worked flawlessly, is super quiet, easy to clean, starts and stops smoothly.