Dead sailfin

[dieselkeeper]

I purchased a large sailfin and started copper treatment. Eating like a pig. No signs of disease, ich or velvet. Breathing good, no head twitch. After 2 days in QT, he went stupid. Darting all over the tank, splashing water on the floor. When he calmed down, he was a little beat up. Alive but kinda of floating around, he would swim some but was dead in less than a hour. Ammonia was at 0.25 and copper was at 0.8. So what do you think killed this fish? Was something wrong with him that made him dart around the tank or did he commit suicide, hurting himself darting around?

I successfully QT'd 4 fish all ready. So this is not my first rodeo.

 

[melypr1985]

What size QT do you have and what kind of filtration is on it? Any hiding places big enough for him to hide in? Any red marks or white places on him (not spots like ick but patches)?

 

[dieselkeeper]

20 gallon with hang on the back filter stuff with seeded bio balls. 4 inch PVC elbow for hiding. No spots on him. I checked him out thoroughly at the LFS. And I always make sure the fish if eating before purchasing. He was 4-5 inches in length.

 

[melypr1985]

Yeah, that's pretty good size. How did you acclimate? Did you check the salinity in his bag before acclimating? The ammonia is a problem, but I'm trying to figure out if it was the only problem. Sorry for all the questions.

 

[dieselkeeper]

The salinity was at 1.020 in the bag. I floated the bag with a small hole in the top. Size of a finger. I pour water in every 15-20 minutes. When the bag was full, I would squeeze out some to make room to pour some water in. It took almost 2 hours to get the salinity to match. He ate like a pig the day before. Rinsed frozen food.

 

[melypr1985]

Ok. Others may have other ideas here, but I'm thinking the ammonia played a big part here. There are other things that could play into it as well such as stress, the injuries he caused himself, and unknown illness. Keep in mind that there are still any number of diseases and parasites that we don't yet know about or have enough info on to be helpful. It could have been a gram negative bacteria that kills quickly, though they usually at least show signs right before death. Pictures can be helpful, though if you have any. Maybe we will see something in them that you missed.

 

[Empress]

Did you put any ammonia reducer in the bag? As soon as the bag of water hits air, the ph drops and converts ammonia into toxic ammonia. Within 30 minutes the fish could be dead. Just a thought.... sorry for the loss. [emoji25]

 

[melypr1985]

Did you put any ammonia reducer in the bag? As soon as the bag of water hits air, the ph drops and converts ammonia into toxic ammonia. Within 30 minutes the fish could be dead. Just a thought.... sorry for the loss. [emoji25]

Very true ^^^ though it would depend on if the fish was shipped to you or bought at a LFS. This isn't usually a problem when buying from an LFS since the fish isn't usually in the bag long enough to create that same PH drop and Ammonia build up.

 

[dieselkeeper]

No pics sorry. Didn't add any ammonia reducer. I do remember I had a wrasse do the same thing a few years back. Had him for a little over a year. He went nuts darting all over the tank (120 gal) ended up sitting on the sandbed and dead a little later.

I guess this one of those things we may never know. Thanks for your input

 

[reefes pieces]

Sounds like it was from the ammonia spike. Sorry for your loss

 

[dieselkeeper]

Sounds like it was from the ammonia spike. Sorry for your loss

So no amount of ammonia is perferred?

 

[melypr1985]

So no amount of ammonia is perferred?

Correct. Any ammonia at all can be detrimental to the fish we keep. It's very toxic and even if they survive being exposed, they can be injured from it (internal organs, gills ect.) Any time you see ammonia, a water change is in order.

 

[reefes pieces]

So no amount of ammonia is perferred?

Correct some fish are more sensitive to it. Also with traces of ammonia there might be nitrite as well. On top of that having copper could add to the level of distress. In the end it's still an assumption but I've seen the same erratic behavior when the water had some form of toxicity.

 

[dieselkeeper]

So that is what probably did it. I need to get one of those ammonia gauges. Do they last a long time? Can it be reused after it drys out between QT ing?

 

[melypr1985]

So that is what probably did it. I need to get one of those ammonia gauges. Do they last a long time? Can it be reused after it drys out between QT ing?

They last about a year and don't cost much at all. I've been able to use mine after letting it dry more than a few times.

 

[reefes pieces]

I use the seachem badge and supposedly it lasts up to a year. Once you use it I suggest keeping it submerged in water even in storage. I'd toss it in a small tupperware container with water if you're not using it. But it's pretty cheap so it wouldn't hurt to get a new one every time you start up a QT.

So that is what probably did it. I need to get one of those ammonia gauges. Do they last a long time? Can it be reused after it drys out between QT ing?

 

[dieselkeeper]

I had a large fish in a small tank. Is bio balls in a hang on the back filter sufficient enough?

 

[melypr1985]

I had a large fish in a small tank. Is bio balls in a hang on the back filter sufficient enough?

A good dense sponge would be better IME, or even something like Matrix Media that will have way more surface area for bacteria to build on.

 

[dieselkeeper]

Thanks, I will get some matrix for the next fish.

I did just stopped at Petco for an ammonia badge. Didn't have any. But they did stock Chemiclean. Go figure.