Death from uronema?

[Solasis]

Got some new fish in from a pre QTd source. Lyretail Anthias were doing well, then one of the females devolved raised scales and a bump and started hiding. She was also being bullied by the male. Picture 1 is what it looked like. Woke up today to her dead in a cave. Is this uronema or just aggression?

 

[F i s h y]

@Jay Hemdal

 

[vetteguy53081]

Got some new fish in from a pre QTd source. Lyretail Anthias were doing well, then one of the females devolved raised scales and a bump and started hiding. She was also being bullied by the male. Picture 1 is what it looked like. Woke up today to her dead in a cave. Is this uronema or just aggression?

The oval shape suggests it may be uronema. Any other fish in tank with it other than male anthias mentioned?
Other than aggression you mentioned, uronema which is an oval ciliated motile protozoan which causes tissue necrosis as seen on fish. Raised or missing scales is also a sign.
This can also be triggered by low salinity levels as well as excess food waste on tank bottom which this protozoan can feed on as often prevention can be more valuable than cure for this.

 

[F i s h y]

Jay Hemdal did a great write up about Uronema that I found to be worth reading.

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal

Red Band Syndrome in Marine Fishes: Caused by the Protozoan; Uronema sp. Jay Hemdal Introduction: This moderately common disease of certain species of marine fish is so often misdiagnosed that most aquarists apply incorrect treatment methods...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

I vote uronema - which can be in your tank without infecting or doing anything to other fish - except when new ones are added. Likewise - people often ask 'how to I rid my tank of uronema'. Answer - you can - but only temporarily.. It is hard to diagnose after death,

 

[Solasis]

The oval shape suggests it may be uronema. Any other fish in tank with it other than male anthias mentioned?
Other than aggression you mentioned, uronema which is an oval ciliated motile protozoan which causes tissue necrosis as seen on fish. Raised or missing scales is also a sign.
This can also be triggered by low salinity levels as well as excess food waste on tank bottom which this protozoan can feed on as often prevention can be more valuable than cure for this.

3 other anthias in the tank and a wrasse. So its not worth it to sterilize the tank?

 

[vetteguy53081]

3 other anthias in the tank and a wrasse. So its not worth it to sterilize the tank?

I would not say that. keep excess food and waste off the bottom, assure salinity does not fall to low levels and you can add Ruby Rally Pro to the tank for protection against these protozoans. Rally is reef safe

 

[MnFish1]

3 other anthias in the tank and a wrasse. So its not worth it to sterilize the tank?

IMHO - no - feed well. excellent parameters,

 

[Solasis]

IMHO - no - feed well. excellent parameters,

Thanks. So is this something in most people's tanks then? It's just well managed?

 

[F i s h y]

I would not say that. keep excess food and waste off the bottom, assure salinity does not fall to low levels and you can add Ruby Rally Pro to the tank for protection against these protozoans. Rally is reef safe

Just to be clear, are you saying that Ruby Rally can prevent Uronema? My understanding is that there is no cure, and that fish can be carriers without symptoms, or in an environment with it and naturally just never contract it, but there is no cure or actual prevention.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Just to be clear, are you saying that Ruby Rally can prevent Uronema? My understanding is that there is no cure, and that fish can be carriers without symptoms, or in an environment with it and naturally just never contract it, but there is no cure or actual prevention.

Safeguard against protozoans and equivalent to a bath. A bath often prevents issues that would arise without any form of treatment and as mentioned by myself and often by Jay- prevention is best first step .
Uronema in early stage CAN be treated. Quick Cure is the recommended treatment as is Ruby rally Pro and even Chloroquine Phosphate which will also work but must be used precisely. Uronema is not an obligate parasite, and can thrive on bacteria, uneaten food, and waste besides a host fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

+1 this looks like internal Uronema. The lesion is farther forward than is usually seen, but still within the normal range.
There is no treatment for this and groups of fish acquired from the same dealer at the same time can contract it, but is rarely to never transferred to existing fish in an aquarium, and only a handful of species are susceptible - anthias, chromis, yellow wrasse make up about 90% of the cases.
Jay

 

[Solasis]

I have a microscope coming that I am

+1 this looks like internal Uronema. The lesion is farther forward than is usually seen, but still within the normal range.
There is no treatment for this and groups of fish acquired from the same dealer at the same time can contract it, but is rarely to never transferred to existing fish in an aquarium, and only a handful of species are susceptible - anthias, chromis, yellow wrasse make up about 90% of the cases.
Jay

Thanks. This fish were QT'd for 6 weeks by the vendor but I guess it wasn't enough. So I don't need to take any action as far as sterilizing my tank? I'll just avoid those three species

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I have a microscope coming that I am

Thanks. This fish were QT'd for 6 weeks by the vendor but I guess it wasn't enough. So I don't need to take any action as far as sterilizing my tank? I'll just avoid those three species

Uronema can be isolated from the majority of established aquariums, they normally feed on bacteria, so no need to sterilize the tank for this.
Jay

 

[F i s h y]

Safeguard against protozoans and equivalent to a bath. A bath often prevents issues that would arise without any form of treatment and as mentioned by myself and often by Jay- prevention is best first step .
Uronema in early stage CAN be treated. Quick Cure is the recommended treatment as is Ruby rally Pro and even Chloroquine Phosphate which will also work but must be used precisely. Uronema is not an obligate parasite, and can thrive on bacteria, uneaten food, and waste besides a host fish.

Thank you for the clarification. Appreciated.

 

[Solasis]

Uronema can be isolated from the majority of established aquariums, they normally feed on bacteria, so no need to sterilize the tank for this.
Jay

Thank you, that is great news. I was wondering if uronema is usually this fast of a killer? Time line was that they were QT'd for 6 weeks by the seller, shipped to me, and fine for 4-5 days. Yesterday morning I noticed she was hiding, but still came out to eat. Then that evening I saw the white bump/raised scales. I'm pretty certain I would've noticed it in the morning because I spent a good 20-25 minutes watching them. So it happened in just a few hours. Then she died that night. Not doubting it's uronema, but is there also a possibility that she was attacked by the male and the white mark was either from the male directly or her bumping into rocks as she was being chased? And the stress killed her overnight? I do have a microscope coming in tomorrow and I preserved the body in the freezer so I can do a scraping.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you, that is great news. I was wondering if uronema is usually this fast of a killer? Time line was that they were QT'd for 6 weeks by the seller, shipped to me, and fine for 4-5 days. Yesterday morning I noticed she was hiding, but still came out to eat. Then that evening I saw the white bump/raised scales. I'm pretty certain I would've noticed it in the morning because I spent a good 20-25 minutes watching them. So it happened in just a few hours. Then she died that night. Not doubting it's uronema, but is there also a possibility that she was attacked by the male and the white mark was either from the male directly or her bumping into rocks as she was being chased? And the stress killed her overnight? I do have a microscope coming in tomorrow and I preserved the body in the freezer so I can do a scraping.

Without doing a microscopic skin scrape, there is no way to be 100% certain it is Uronema. Uronema develops under the fish's skin, in the muscle tissue. When it reaches the surface, it erupts quickly, with death following fairly soon after because the internal damage was already done.

However, Uronema is so often misdiagnosed as an "injury" that we tend to discount that cause. I went back and looked at your photos though, and I am as certain as I can be that this was Uronema. Starting off with a white angled line and then erupting into an open sore is so typical.

Jay