Death Row QT

[Jedi Knghit]

After having put 8 fish through QT processes successfully, I am striking out bad. I am mostly just venting, but please chime in if you have any suggestions.


1st set of fish:
3 banggai cardinals
1 clown

Of course the all looked good and ate at the LFS.
20 min drive home, 20 min float and one of cardinals is starting to look a little off before I even finished acclimating.
1 cardinal down.
The LFS replaced the dead cardinal even though they offer no guarantee.
Over the next 4 days, all three cardinals would not eat and died one by one.
No ammonia per the badge, salinity and temp were fine.
No visible signs of disease and the clown was eating and fine.
Clown fish went through 14 days of copper transfer to a clean QT.
Started to treat with prazi and GC, got through day 6 and the clown was acting odd one morning.
Heater was stuck on and the water was 91 degrees.
Disconnected the heater and went to get an ice pack and a ziplock bag
Clown died before I could even get the ice in the water.
Complete wipe out.

2nd set of fish:

I reset the QT.
Ordered 3 cardinal and a clown from Live Aquaria.
They arrived on time even though they shipped from different locations
Acclimated them and let them settle in for the night.
All fish picked at some mysis the next day and looked good.
Next morning one cardinals was dead. No visible signs of disease, no ammonia issues or temp issues ( I added an Inkbird to the QT kit and replaced the heater).
I observed and fed for the next 6 days. All fish were eating and looked healthy, so I started dosing Copper Power.
Per my calculation copper should have been around 1.5ppm and the Hanna checker confirmed 1.54.
Neither cardinal was interested in food this morning
I noticed one of the remaining cardinals breathing heavy a couple hours later
Added an air stone t incase oxygen was low.
I performed a fresh water dip of the other cardinal and clown, no signs of flukes. (Aerated, temp and PH matched)
Second cardinal died
Several hours later the last cardinal is breathing heavy and on its way out, meanwhile the clown seems fine.

QT Setup:
20 gallon High
HOB Filter
Heater + Inkbird
Airstone and wave maker, but I generally only use them with GC and Prazi.
New Ammonia badge
PVC pipe pieces

In case anyone lost count, that is seven cardinals and one clown dead.

 

[lpsouth1978]

I know this is a VERY HOT topic, but I don't generally QT for just this reason. I have lost FAR more fish in QT than just drip acclimating and adding to DT. The very few times I do QT, I simply do TTM using 5g buckets with airstones and heaters. I know I probably have ich in my DT, but choose to manage it with a relatively lightly stocked, peaceful tank and feeding quality foods. I even have a Powder Blue Tang that shows ZERO signs of disease with NO QT at all.

 

[StatelineReefer]

Cardinals are super tough to QT and very sensitive to changes, especially in salinity!!!
When I got mine I had to stay up all night literally nudging them with a net to keep them swimming around and not doing death loops. It took hours for them to recover to the point where they were upright and not nosediving into the tank bottom or side glass.

One of them never recovered, but the other two ended up pairing up...

 

[Jedi Knghit]

I know this is a VERY HOT topic, but I don't generally QT for just this reason. I have lost FAR more fish in QT than just drip acclimating and adding to DT. The very few times I do QT, I simply do TTM using 5g buckets with airstones and heaters. I know I probably have ich in my DT, but choose to manage it with a relatively lightly stocked, peaceful tank and feeding quality foods. I even have a Powder Blue Tang that shows ZERO signs of disease with NO QT at all.

I get where you are coming from, and did not quarantine when I started either until I lost my first fish.

 

[Jedi Knghit]

Cardinals are super tough to QT and very sensitive to changes, especially in salinity!!!
When I got mine I had to stay up all night literally nudging them with a net to keep them swimming around and not doing death loops. It took hours for them to recover to the point where they were upright and not nosediving into the tank bottom or side glass.

One of them never recovered, but the other two ended up pairing up...

I could believe that with the first batch, but a pair of them in the second batch were in QT for 12 days before they died.

Anyone else had issues with bengali cardinals in QT?

 

[DeniseAndy]

I have had bad luck with cardinals too lately. All mine from Divers Den died within two days of qt. My captive bred are the only ones that survived (until the puple tang incident - we do not speak of it).
I would say try to stick to captive bred direct from breeders/ORA and their should be little issue and no reason for qt on those guys. Just observation really.
So sorry to hear of your losses.

 

[lpsouth1978]

I get where you are coming from, and did not quarantine when I started either until I lost my first fish.

Trust me I have lost fish. I have been reefing for about 20 years, so I have seen most anything that we get in our systems. I have lost a fish here or there, but when I QT'd, I lost roughly 50% of everything I bought. Now I lose very little and manage disease rather than spend my time, money, and energy trying to eradicate it.

As far as losses QT'ing, Have you tried TTM, or Hypo salinity instead of copper? TTM is 100% effective against ich, when performed properly (and the only method that I have had nearly zero losses with). Some claim Hypo is not 100% effective but in my 1 time using it, it was effective and most fish survived it. Once finished with either of these, you can observe and treat with Prazi and/or other meds for things TTM and Hypo do not treat.

 

[Jedi Knghit]

Trust me I have lost fish. I have been reefing for about 20 years, so I have seen most anything that we get in our systems. I have lost a fish here or there, but when I QT'd, I lost roughly 50% of everything I bought. Now I lose very little and manage disease rather than spend my time, money, and energy trying to eradicate it.

As far as losses QT'ing, Have you tried TTM, or Hypo salinity instead of copper? TTM is 100% effective against ich, when performed properly (and the only method that I have had nearly zero losses with). Some claim Hypo is not 100% effective but in my 1 time using it, it was effective and most fish survived it. Once finished with either of these, you can observe and treat with Prazi and/or other meds for things TTM and Hypo do not treat.

I have not tried TTM or Hypo as the methods I was using were working. I may have to reevaluate that going forward, but the first set of cardinals died before I even started any meds.

 

[Big G]

After having put 8 fish through QT processes successfully, I am striking out bad. I am mostly just venting, but please chime in if you have any suggestions.


1st set of fish:
3 banggai cardinals
1 clown

Of course the all looked good and ate at the LFS.
20 min drive home, 20 min float and one of cardinals is starting to look a little off before I even finished acclimating.
1 cardinal down.
The LFS replaced the dead cardinal even though they offer no guarantee.
Over the next 4 days, all three cardinals would not eat and died one by one.
No ammonia per the badge, salinity and temp were fine.
No visible signs of disease and the clown was eating and fine.
Clown fish went through 14 days of copper transfer to a clean QT.
Started to treat with prazi and GC, got through day 6 and the clown was acting odd one morning.
Heater was stuck on and the water was 91 degrees.
Disconnected the heater and went to get an ice pack and a ziplock bag
Clown died before I could even get the ice in the water.
Complete wipe out.

2nd set of fish:

I reset the QT.
Ordered 3 cardinal and a clown from Live Aquaria.
They arrived on time even though they shipped from different locations
Acclimated them and let them settle in for the night.
All fish picked at some mysis the next day and looked good.
Next morning one cardinals was dead. No visible signs of disease, no ammonia issues or temp issues ( I added an Inkbird to the QT kit and replaced the heater).
I observed and fed for the next 6 days. All fish were eating and looked healthy, so I started dosing Copper Power.
Per my calculation copper should have been around 1.5ppm and the Hanna checker confirmed 1.54.
Neither cardinal was interested in food this morning
I noticed one of the remaining cardinals breathing heavy a couple hours later
Added an air stone t incase oxygen was low.
I performed a fresh water dip of the other cardinal and clown, no signs of flukes. (Aerated, temp and PH matched)
Second cardinal died
Several hours later the last cardinal is breathing heavy and on its way out, meanwhile the clown seems fine.

QT Setup:
20 gallon High
HOB Filter
Heater + Inkbird
Airstone and wave maker, but I generally only use them with GC and Prazi.
New Ammonia badge
PVC pipe pieces

In case anyone lost count, that is seven cardinals and one clown dead.

Oh man. Sorry for your losses. A couple of things I've done to my QT that has been working pretty well for awhile now.

Paint the back and both ends of the QT dark blue or black. It helps create a cave like atmosphere and the fish relax a bit more.

Leave off the lights for a few days. Don't even turn on a lamp in the room. Window light is ok as long as it doesn't hit the tank.

Add a few fake rocks and plastic aquarium plants to the QT. PVC is ok, but these work better. This gives them cover and helps them to relax.

A powerhead aimed up at the surface so it's actively rippling the water add O2 to the water column.

A HOB and a bubble filter with the pads having been soaking in my sump for at least 30 days, or in an emergency soaking in something like BioSpira overnight. Pour the leftover liquid into the QT.
Also add to the HOB a mesh bag filled with ceramic materials like Seachem Matrix or Fluval BioMax that have been treated the same as the pads above.

 

[StatelineReefer]

The cardinal that I lost made it 1 month in QT and 14 days in the DT. Banggai Cardinals just have weak constitutions for change... they're very sensitive and will show you somethings wrong by spiralling out and dying. Keep in mind, this Banggai was eating and swimming perfectly well along with the other two... then suddenly dead

 

[Halal Hotdog]

If you are using copper than couple things you can try. Keep the medicated QT running all the time even if there are no fish in it. If there is no fish you want to ghost feed to keep enough bacteria to control ammonia. Finally, as long as you are measuring copper levels in the tank then you can keep live rock and live sand in it. The rock and sand will not be reusable for a reef tank but will help maintain a diverse group of bacteria as well as provide a natural environment for the fish.

 

[Jedi Knghit]

My wife would probably kill me if I kept the QT up all the time. I set it up in the kitchen/dining area as needed. I have a second QT in the basement for corals. I like keeping the fish in a higher traffic area, it seems like they adjust to people faster then when I kept them in the basement. Plus it is easier to keep an eye on them.

I feel a little better knowing that others have had issues with cardinals and they may be a little more sensitive to water conditions.

I also forgot to mention I have sponge in the HOB filter and seed with Biospira. I may try to keep some sand in for the next round and maybe some rubble too just to see how much the copper fluctuates.