Dehumidifier?

[member 99594]

So I can't seem to find an answer on this.

My DT is going to be in a rec room that backs on to the laundry room. In the laundry room is where the sump and equipment will live. We also need to keep a dehumidifier in the basement throughout the year to cut the humidity.

Will this pose a problem or cause my tank to evaporate at alarming levels?

 

[JoshH]

Deleted

 

[pecan2phat]

With a fish room in my basement/laundry room, I was unable to combat the salty humid air longterm. Everything basically rusted even the metal parts of the dehumidifier and all my tools that were down there also. Mold issues started developing on the concrete walls and wood cabinets after the 5~6 year mark. I had even installed a commercial inline exhaust with a humidistat and supplemented the dehumidifier with a portable AC unit during the summer months.
I ended up shutting down the basement fish room after 10 years and will no longer attempt any marine tank environments in a basement below grade. It was a hard learning experience in my situation, mold actually crept up the wall onto the 1st and slightly up to the 2nd floor. Remediation took me months and basically scared the bejesus out of me so I'm sticking to limited amount of tanks and they are on the 1st floor with sumps under the cabinet.

 

[ca1ore]

The amount that any body of water will evaporate is a function of many things, including ambient humidity and temperature. Running a dehumidifier in a fish room to, say, 50% RH will accelerate evaporation from the sump versus that room at 75% RH. Whether it's material to ones system is a different question. Not sure where you live, but here in CT I run a dehumidifier to keep the basement fish room at about 50% RH. In the Winter, the same space is about 30% RH without running the unit. So evaporation is faster in the winter without the dehumidifier than it is in the Summer with it. I would not worry. Last point is that AC has the same effect.

 

[JoshH]

Deleted

 

[ca1ore]

And I'm a little confused with you running your dehumidifier, if you run it in the summer to keep it at 50% and you don't run it atall in the winter and it stays at 30% (Lower than 50%) I feel that has nothing to do with evaporation based on humidity and is more related to temperature differences. However, I'm curious to know your ATO consumption in the summer at 50% VS winter at 30%, this would show the real difference, as long as temperatures were roughly similar. But that's just me, I could be misunderstanding your post.

It is absolutely a function of temperature. Air at 90 degrees and 100% humidity holds far more water than air at 40 degrees and 100% humidity. My basement is wet, regardless of whether I run a tank or not - it's just even worse with the tank. In order to keep RH down to an acceptable level (50% for me) I have to run a dehumidifier; in the Winter, however, the cooler temperatures means less water in the air and an RH below that which requires active mitigation. I may be mixing up absolute and relative humidity, but you get the idea .... My 75 gallon ATO lasts almost 3 weeks in the Summer versus about 10 days in the Winter.

 

[member 99594]

Your tank will evaporate at approximately the same rate with or without a dehumidifier running. It's your dehumidifier that will be working a little harder in the long run. Is there a moisture source in the basement such as seepage from walls or the floor that's causing the humidity?

Very unique question BTW.

My thought was that if the air was dryer would it pull more from the tank. ... We run a dehumidifier there as we live in a VERY humid climate and the basement tends to be a bid more humid. No leaks or anything.

With a fish room in my basement/laundry room, I was unable to combat the salty humid air longterm. Everything basically rusted even the metal parts of the dehumidifier and all my tools that were down there also. Mold issues started developing on the concrete walls and wood cabinets after the 5~6 year mark. I had even installed a commercial inline exhaust with a humidistat and supplemented the dehumidifier with a portable AC unit during the summer months.
I ended up shutting down the basement fish room after 10 years and will no longer attempt any marine tank environments in a basement below grade. It was a hard learning experience in my situation, mold actually crept up the wall onto the 1st and slightly up to the 2nd floor. Remediation took me months and basically scared the bejesus out of me so I'm sticking to limited amount of tanks and they are on the 1st floor with sumps under the cabinet.

Now though you have me thinking. I wanted to put the tank in the rec room as it is easier to keep the temp of the tank stable vs upstairs in the living area where it can get a bit hotter in the summer months. So would you say I should put it on the main floor to allow more air flow thus less humidity?

 

[JoshH]

Deleted

 

[JoshH]

Deleted

 

[member 99594]

Now I am leaning to putting the tank in the living room.... I just really wanted to have the access to the laundry tubs instead of the kitchen sinks as well having a bit of a cooler environment for the tank, therefore easier to heat than cool off.

 

[JoshH]

Deleted

 

[member 99594]

That is a ton of unplanned work lol... however, what's this hobby without unplanned events!!

 

[JoshH]

Deleted

 

[pecan2phat]

Originally, my fish room/laundry room (13'x17') just had a 75g basement sump plumbed for my 180g on the 1st floor for ease of maintenance, room for equipment and hide all the mess and uglies.
I had built a 2"x4" stand for the sump and added an empty 102g tank that I had to the top of the stand just for extra water volume and isolation purposes, this also facilitated for easy water changes without shutting down the sump and main tank. After a few months, addiction turned this into a full blown reef tank. Then because I had enclosed this fish room with a wall and door, I told myself that having a counter height cutout in the wall for my empty 120g would be nice and I'll leave it empty for future use. This ended up being a full blown SPS dominate system with it's own 30g sump. Then I saw someone selling a 30" cube and since I never owned a cube tank, it ended up in the middle of my fish room plumbed to the SPS system for frags and overflow coral.
So in short, the fish room had a lot of saltwater and I thought I had it figured out beforehand with an inline exhaust venting via a humidistat (which was on almost 24/7). There were fans blowing across the top of all 3 tanks, when the 12k BTU AC was not cooling, it was on dehumidifying mode from April through November and there was a dedicated dehumidifier on the other side of the fish room on at all times (I left the door to the fish room always open unless we had guest) yet the semi-finished basement and adjacent fish room always felt damp vs the 1st floor.
As the years went by, all my tools or anything metal showed signs of rust. There are some painted poured concrete walls and on one wall where there was a sink countertop layout, mold was growing behind on the wall and eventually onto the wood of the cabinets. On this wall, the mold actually ran up to the 1st and 2nd floor. I did not even notice this till I had to break down the entire fish room.
I took 2 years off after this because it was a monumental feat for me to sell all the livestock, shutdown the tanks and clean them out as best as I could. My 180g was still on the 1st floor so this past April, I started it back up but utilized a sump in the stand vs plumbing anything back into the basement. Now the basement is relatively always dry. The inline exhaust is no longer needed but the dehumidifier is still utilized.
My 1st floor has the 180g + sump, a 24g + sump and a 65g AIO tank. Area is probably only 600~700 sq ft but no way does it feel how the basement once was, always damp. Whether there is better airflow or not, having the tank and sump on my 1st floor has actually worked out better since it's always been a "dry" house. Even with these 3 tanks running, the 1st floor averages about 46% humidity since I set the tanks back up in April. I couldn't get the humidity below 60% in the fish room. I do run central AC for the 1st/2nd floor so that is a major factor too.
I'm sure being below grade and on a hill with underground streams has a lot to do with the issues I've encountered so not saying that I would never do a basement sump again but it would have to be in a different house and the basement would need to be above grade for me to consider it.

 

[member 99594]

Originally, my fish room/laundry room (13'x17') just had a 75g basement sump plumbed for my 180g on the 1st floor for ease of maintenance, room for equipment and hide all the mess and uglies.
I had built a 2"x4" stand for the sump and added an empty 102g tank that I had to the top of the stand just for extra water volume and isolation purposes, this also facilitated for easy water changes without shutting down the sump and main tank. After a few months, addiction turned this into a full blown reef tank. Then because I had enclosed this fish room with a wall and door, I told myself that having a counter height cutout in the wall for my empty 120g would be nice and I'll leave it empty for future use. This ended up being a full blown SPS dominate system with it's own 30g sump. Then I saw someone selling a 30" cube and since I never owned a cube tank, it ended up in the middle of my fish room plumbed to the SPS system for frags and overflow coral.
So in short, the fish room had a lot of saltwater and I thought I had it figured out beforehand with an inline exhaust venting via a humidistat (which was on almost 24/7). There were fans blowing across the top of all 3 tanks, when the 12k BTU AC was not cooling, it was on dehumidifying mode from April through November and there was a dedicated dehumidifier on the other side of the fish room on at all times (I left the door to the fish room always open unless we had guest) yet the semi-finished basement and adjacent fish room always felt damp vs the 1st floor.
As the years went by, all my tools or anything metal showed signs of rust. There are some painted poured concrete walls and on one wall where there was a sink countertop layout, mold was growing behind on the wall and eventually onto the wood of the cabinets. On this wall, the mold actually ran up to the 1st and 2nd floor. I did not even notice this till I had to break down the entire fish room.
I took 2 years off after this because it was a monumental feat for me to sell all the livestock, shutdown the tanks and clean them out as best as I could. My 180g was still on the 1st floor so this past April, I started it back up but utilized a sump in the stand vs plumbing anything back into the basement. Now the basement is relatively always dry. The inline exhaust is no longer needed but the dehumidifier is still utilized.
My 1st floor has the 180g + sump, a 24g + sump and a 65g AIO tank. Area is probably only 600~700 sq ft but no way does it feel how the basement once was, always damp. Whether there is better airflow or not, having the tank and sump on my 1st floor has actually worked out better since it's always been a "dry" house. Even with these 3 tanks running, the 1st floor averages about 46% humidity since I set the tanks back up in April. I couldn't get the humidity below 60% in the fish room. I do run central AC for the 1st/2nd floor so that is a major factor too.
I'm sure being below grade and on a hill with underground streams has a lot to do with the issues I've encountered so not saying that I would never do a basement sump again but it would have to be in a different house and the basement would need to be above grade for me to consider it.

I am currently planning an 80 Gallon with about 40 gallons for the sump. This is the one my wife would like upstairs, however, I see me lugging buckets all over the house with this setup. In the future, I would like a 40 gallon - 60-gallon frag system as well.

Do you think I would be better leaving the 80 Gallon upstairs and set up the frag system downstairs? I am thinking the frag system will require the space for fragging and experimenting so to have the laundry area as the "fish room" might be a better plan.

Thoughts?

 

[pecan2phat]

I personally found that going downstairs was not a normal procedure for me. It's not like I have a home office downstairs so during the 10 year tenure, I would sometimes, only go downstairs just to feed the fish or check the filter socks. This did not let me "enjoy" the systems downstairs vs the 2 tanks I had on the 1st floor so there is definitely a positive for having the tank on the 1st floor IMO unless you spend a lot of time down there for other purposes.
One thing that helped sway my decision was the ability to run my RO/DI supply line from the basement up to the area where the tank is. The hardwood floor already was drilled for the previous setup facilitating the return and drain lines so it was simple to snake up the 1/4" RO/DI line. Because the wife said okay for me to hide a brute trash can next to the stand, I am able to fill all my ATOs with ease and perform water changes with the assistance of another empty smaller 32g brute trash can on wheels. I keep this in the basement until needed. RO/DI water is pumped from the stationary brute into the smaller one on wheels, salt is added and mixed with a pump for about 3+ hours and ready for the water change. Without the RO/DI trash can, it would have been a lot more work lugging water even just for the ATOs.

 

[ADAM]

If the worry of the sump is based on added humidity in the basement area, could you not cover most of the sump “tank”?
Less open water surface= less vapor.

If the added “sea spray” is a concern then a ventilating dehumidifier maybe an option to consider as well. This will bring in fresh air and dehumidify the area at the same time.